Hawk's Electrical System

[Ron Hill]

Tom : Right now I'm faced with some computer router problems, so you'll have to bare with me.

I'm no too sure how "smart" you internal V regulator is.  My Balmar ARS V has to be told:
1. What type battery (gel/flooded/AGM)
2. Max amps to be charged based on the engine belt size.
3. Alternator case temp
4. battery temp

Do those sound familiar?  They are the same parameters asked by you AC Truecharge 20. 

You mentioned 55 amps, it almost sounds as though your battery bank was discharged, 55 amps for how long?

Glanced at Maine Sails article of 1999.  As I mentioned I'm not an electrician, only a good mechanic.  I've had my similar electrical set up since 1992? and am very happy with it. 

If your internal regulator is as smart as your Truecharge 20 then you should be OK. 

Let me get my router problem solved.   Ron

[mainesail]

Glanced at Maine Sails article of 1999.  As I mentioned I'm not an electrician, only a good mechanic.  I've had my similar electrical set up since 1992? and am very happy with it. 

If your internal regulator is as smart as your Truecharge 20 then you should be OK. 

Let me get my router problem solved.   Ron

Ron,

I think the article referenced was a lot later than that, and was written in December of 2010. It is here:


Musings Regarding External Regulation
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=125392


My C-36 alternator article is older but does not delve as deeply into the topic of regulation..

[Ron Hill]

First I must apologize to Maine Sail for stating the wrong date on his article.  It was in Dec 2010.

I found the article both interesting and very nformative.  I guess that I've always/only been exposed to the 13.5V internal regulators that are found on autos and boat engines from the 1990s.  Also the regular alternators of that time frame were not made to sustain hi amperage outputs for any extended period.  Guess that progress has passed me by!
I didn't know that there was an internal V regulator that could be installed that was in the 14.4 V range.

I've always used gel or AGM batteries and got 8 years out of my last set of AGMs.  Maybe I'll have to go back to flooded batteries - if there is another battery change left in my sailing career.

So Hawk, try what MaineSail professes, just make sure that your alternator can put out 55 amps for a period of more than several nanoseconds and sustain a hi amperage output.   

[mainesail]

First I must apologize to Maine Sail for stating the wrong date on his article.  It was in Dec 2010.

I found the article both interesting and very nformative.  I guess that I've always/only been exposed to the 13.5V internal regulators that are found on autos and boat engines from the 1990s.  Also the regular alternators of that time frame were not made to sustain hi amperage outputs for any extended period.  Guess that progress has passed me by!
I didn't know that there was an internal V regulator that could be installed that was in the 14.4 V range.

I've always used gel or AGM batteries and got 8 years out of my last set of AGMs.  Maybe I'll have to go back to flooded batteries - if there is another battery change left in my sailing career.

So Hawk, try what MaineSail professes, just make sure that your alternator can put out 55 amps for a period of more than several nanoseconds and sustain a hi amperage output.



   

Ron,

This regulator is a bolt on adjustable regulator direct from Leece-Neville. They are adjustable from 13.8V to 14.6V and can upgrade just about any of the Motorolla style alts commonly found on Universal diesels to a higher output voltage.. They generally ship from the factory at about 14.2 V..

This regulator does bulk and absorption but lacks float and temp sensing..


Ron if you're tied to a dock regularly and have a shore side charger than 8 years out of AGM's is darn good performance. Try getting that life when off cruising full time and only ever getting back to 80-85% SOC or living on a mooring with no solar or wind.

This is the life expectancy direct from Lifeline's Justin Gobar.

"Put broadly, there are four ways that will yield different lifetimes based on daily 50% deep cycles:

       1. Fully charge after each discharge. Estimated life: 6-9 Years.
       2. Fully Recharge at least once a week and equalize once a month. Estimated life: 4-6 Years.
       3. Only recharge to 85% and equalize once a month. Estimated life: 2-4 years.
       4. Only charge to 85% and never equalize. Estimated life: 1 year."

Most boaters on moorings, & full time cruisers, which we have a lot of up here in Maine, fall into category #4 though I see average lifespans of 2-4 years if not on a dock.....

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

How bout this. I bought 2 combination deepcycle/start batteries from costco three years ago and have never had to add water to them. They are my only batteries and are used with the 1-2-B switch and are also connected to a charger 24/7

Is this strange or what?

[Hawk]

Mainesails photo of the integral regulator is exactly what the alt co. put on my 105 amp alternator, getting rid of the external reg.

Two nights ago, after considering Ron's recent concerns, I checked my house bank which was at 12.4 v which Trojan says is about 70%. I turned on my chatplotter, depth and autopilot and motored around for 2 hours. I noted on the monitor that the house was at 14.2v which I assume indicated that the alt regulator was set at 14.2v which is what Mainesail said was the factory setting. After two hours the house bank (345ah) was right up to 12.8. I left everything off and unplugged for 2 days and tonight the house is comfortably sitting at 12.6/12.7v which is 95-100%.

Two things come to mind, the alt with Mainesail's int reg took my house bank from 70% to basically full in 2 hours motoring. Thats golden and no fancy ex reg.
Also my house bank is holding the charge well after the likely abuse I unintentionally inflicted on it over the last year with a defective external reg and defective Promariner charger.

Also I performed a battery qualification that has the charger assess the battery banks and suddenly my bank 1 light on the display was on so there does not appear to be any problem with the remote charger display.

One question if Mainesail is reading is how do you change the integral reg setting to something other than the factory 14.2?
And is there any reason to do so?

Thanks for all the help and I believe this is one heck of an upgrade from what I was limping around with.

Hawk

[mainesail]

Mainesails photo of the integral regulator is exactly what the alt co. put on my 105 amp alternator, getting rid of the external reg.

Two nights ago, after considering Ron's recent concerns, I checked my house bank which was at 12.4 v which Trojan says is about 70%. I turned on my chatplotter, depth and autopilot and motored around for 2 hours. I noted on the monitor that the house was at 14.2v which I assume indicated that the alt regulator was set at 14.2v which is what Mainesail said was the factory setting. After two hours the house bank (345ah) was right up to 12.8. I left everything off and unplugged for 2 days and tonight the house is comfortably sitting at 12.6/12.7v which is 95-100%.

Two things come to mind, the alt with Mainesail's int reg took my house bank from 70% to basically full in 2 hours motoring. Thats golden and no fancy ex reg.
Also my house bank is holding the charge well after the likely abuse I unintentionally inflicted on it over the last year with a defective external reg and defective Promariner charger.

Also I performed a battery qualification that has the charger assess the battery banks and suddenly my bank 1 light on the display was on so there does not appear to be any problem with the remote charger display.

One question if Mainesail is reading is how do you change the integral reg setting to something other than the factory 14.2?
And is there any reason to do so?

Thanks for all the help and I believe this is one heck of an upgrade from what I was limping around with.

Hawk

Glad it's working out for you and glad your shop knew about that regulator. Here's how to test and set the voltage.

#1 Bring batteries to FULL CHARGE as in accepting less than 2% of their Ah rating but preferably below 1%.

#2 Turn off ALL loads. Nothing should be on when adjusting the regulator.

#3 Run engine at 2000 +/- RPM and measure the voltage at the B+ or alternator output post with a DVM preferably one that is accurate to the tenths.

#4 Adjust voltage using the white slotted screw pot in the bottom of the regulator. Give it a few minutes to react and test again. If voltage still not where you want it, adjust it again.

#5 You can also turn the screw all the way up to 14.6V then back it down a little at a time.

#6 I would advise a setting of 14.4V as this will keep you from gassing off too much but put more amperage into your bank in absorption stage than 14.2V will... 14.6V can work too, and be faster, but you'll want to check the electrolyte more often.

Remember the absorption setting is really only coming into play at charge levels above 80% SOC or so. Below that % of charge the alt should be in BULK and applying full field to the alternator. It is only after the battery voltage has risen enough that the alternator begins "limiting" the voltage to the absorption set point.

[Hawk]

Mainesail,

Thanks so much for this.
Mind you the assumed 14.2v on the reg sure seemed to work the other day.

Now I'll switch threads and figure out if the Rocna I bought in Vancouver last summer is Chinese or Canadian!

Hawk