What's the trick to splicing Stay-set-X?

[SteveLyle]

I'm putting on new halyards.  Ordered 360' of Stay-set-x, a New England Ropes low-stretch, dacron, where the core is not braided, but wrapped with 2 layers of fabric.

I'm following the directions that NER has on their web site for eye-splicing on the shackles.  The splicing technique is different than that used for double braid (which is what I've used previously and didn't find particularly tough to splice).  

I keep ending up with core that won't get buried in the cover.  So the result is an eye that's too big, and is partially made up of core.  

I've redone the splice 4 or so times, trying to adjust the measures to make it more likely for the core to be buried, but no go.  The NER instructions seem to indicate that it's tough to splice this rope, but I'm finding it impossible.

Is there some trick I'm missing?  

Next step is to pay my local rigger to put the splices in.  I hate paying someone to do things that I ought to be able to do myself, especially if my boat's involved.

[Stu Jackson]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Lyle, #75 1986, "Sarah":
                              Is there some trick I'm missing?  

Next step is to pay my local rigger to put the splices in.  I hate paying someone to do things that I ought to be able to do myself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you considered a tight bowline?  I purchased the Wichard Thimble Shackle and there is enough clearance at the top to avoid having to do the splice.  49 feet up, no one notices!

Assume you meant 160 feet.  360 feet and you've got one really high mast for a C34.

[SteveLyle]

3 Halyards, 120' each.

Yep, I know I could use bowlines, just don't want to.  It just doesn't seem 'proper'.

[Stu Jackson]

Steve

I fully understand.  Makes a lot of sense for the main, which you see daily.  May not be required for the jib halyard that stays up all the time, so can save some $ if a rigger does it.  The advantage of the bowline is that you can end-for-end the lines in the future.

[Bill Sedgwick]

Get Brian Toss's "The Complete Rigger's Apprentice". It shows details of the splice. Sta-Set-X is his favorite hayard material.

I had written a detailed response, but skipped the Username and it got deleted. I miss email!

BTW, I have used Toss's book for double braid and spectra and the procedures are clear and I've been successful.

George Sedgwick
SchatzSea 1031

[SteveLyle]

that must be the only book I haven't gotten yet....

Much thanks,
Steve

[chudave]

If your tight at the top, in terms of main sail luft, you can use a buntline hitch instead of a bowline.

You will probably need to cut it off when you go end for end, but it's a little more compact than a bowline with the same basic breaking strength.

Which I think is the real reason for choosing to splice over typing a knot.  The former preserves more of the breaking strength of the line, while the latter allows you to end to end.


Dave Chu

[Aquakon]

A Bowline is the proper knot to use in this instance.  It is improper to splice loop the main halyard; improper by classic boating standards, improper by running rigging standards (re: end-to-end comments made earlier) & creates a less flexible system overall in the sense that, should the need arise, this spliced line could not be utilized as readily in a crisis situation.

By the way, traditional mountaineers have used the bowline knot in rock climbing applications quite successfully; applications where a human life is at stake.  A careful examination of this knot reveals that the more tension is applied to the knot, the more tightly it binds on itself.  Thus, the fail-point of said given line is likely to occur elsewhere along its length, rather than the knot itself.

Thought Adjust...lurking about...

Rumours of my Death Persist

[dave davis]

There is a good review in Practical Sailor Sept. 2001 which compares the Breaking Strenth of several high strenth ropes using using various knots vs. Eye spice. It is a six page review. It might be worth your time to review the numbers. After all, you may have to go up to the top of the rigging some day.

[SteveLyle]

Thanks, George, the tip in Toss's book worked.

For anyone else who may run into this, here goes.  From the book "The Complete Rigger's Apprentice", by Brian Toss, copyright 1998.  Pg 115.

"Slamming Home.  To get that last inch, hitch a small sledgehammer to the shackle, and snap with that.  I am not kidding.  Be careful of your back and shoulders.  Be sure of the anchor.  Two or three moderate snaps should do it."

I was skeptical, I just didn't see HOW it would do it.  But it works.  Twice, so far.  One more to go, tomorrow.  And by the way, the book is worth it - from learning about butterfly knots and 7 new ways (to me) to tie a bowline, to the Icicle hitch (very cool), to a published, authoritative source that backs me up that an eye-splice in Stay-Set-X is the best halyard configuration for the money!  :-)

[George and JoAnn Sedgwick]

Glad you were successful! Brian Toss's book is a great book. I met Brian at the San Diego boatshow and he made it look so easy that I had to get his book. Last weekend, I bought a new Sta-set X halyard - but I needed it immediately so mine's just knotted. BTW, I looked at my spin halyard that I paid to have eye spliced and my splices made per the book have held up much better. The pro's splice is opening at the cover tuck.