New England Ropes VPC

[Kyle Ewing]

I've used Yale's Vizzion 3/8" on for my main halyard for the past season and a half.  I believe it is similar to VPC and am happy with it.  The 3/8" has had no problems with the stock clutches on my 1990.  It's a softer line than sta-set or sta-set X so is easier to coil and otherwise handle.  It is very low stretch and I noticied an immediate affect on my mainsail shape compared to my previous 10+ year old halyards.

The Vizzion is rated for 4000 lbs which is more than enough for our boats and has similar stretch characteristics to high tech lines.  The T-900 is way overkill which is why I went with somethign like Vizzion.

To limit wear on the harlyards I make sure the clutches are open when raising then close only when I need them.

[Hawk]

All this talk on line size has me wondering. I replaced my main sheet with 1/2 '' as well as the genoa sheets. I haven't noticed any problems but what are others using for the main sheet? The self-tailing winches all work well with 1/2" line. I realize some might think the sheets will be too heavy.

Were the original lines all 3/8"? That seems odd to me.
Hawk

[Craig Illman]

Hawk - I believe the stock sheet size is 7/16". I replaced my genoa sheets with 1/2" Yacht Braid. Yes, it's a bit heavy for optimal light air sailing, but it's easy on the hands, doesn't hockle at the turning blocks, and seems to work better in the self-tailer.

Craig

[Hawk]

Craig,

Thats what I found with the 1/2' genoa sheets too...works well. But what about 1/2" on the main sheet...mine seems to work fine but perhaps the boom doesn't just fan out as easily when changing course to broad reaching in light wind. Of couse a little manual persuasion works.
Tom

[Craig Illman]

Tom - I have 7/16" on my Main Sheet. If the 1/2" runs well enough through your blocks, why change it?

Craig

[Hawk]

Right Craig. I'll keep a little closer eye on it to be sure the line is running free.

[Mert Gollaher]

A little follow-up info on VPC...

I heard back from New England Ropes; while the NER line selection guide doesn't include VPC as a halyard option for boats our size, NER is positioning VPC as a step up from Sta-set X in halyard applications for those not willing to spring for the price and performance level of T-900.  Defender recently added VPC to their online catalog  - it appears to be the only NER line they carry - who knows what that means.  I stumbled on a great deal on 10mm VPC, so I bought a halyard.  The cover has the same feel to the touch as Sta-set (I think it's the same cover), but the core is significantly stiffer.  Flexibility seems comparable to sta-set X.  Given the specs I'm hopeful that it will be a good price performer, but I'll see what happens in real life on the boat when launch day arrives.

Thanks for the help everyone.

[David Sanner]

Wayne, it's hard to say how much I filed down my rope clutch teeth.
Slightly rounded off, similar to other rope clutches (including my
old Garhauer).  It's kind of a catch 22, if you take off too much the
line with slip and possibly be eaten up, if they are too sharp
the line can be damaged.


I'll try to post an update of my experience with VPC.  Being that
I don't have advanced testing gear I'll have to go with the
numbers they are reporting for breaking strength and stretch
but we'll see how it handles and try to get a ball park idea
of the stretchyness.

VPC is a 1/3 of the cost of Warpspeed because it probably
has something like that or less of the good stuff in the core.
Samson also makes a bargain blended rope.

Last year I picked up NER Endura Braid for my jib sheets,
also 10mm.   So far so good, very good.  The line is flexible and
holds well in the winches.  (In fact I resized/ground-down the
self-tailer opening on my old lewmar winches so they
stay in and grip well)  The Endura Braid has 100% 
Dyneema SK-75 in the core so it's more of cousin
to Warpspeed.   I'm not sure how the line will hold
it's color or weathers in general.

From what I understand Dyneema has more creep
than Vectran so Vectran can be better for halyards though I
think it's usually blended a bit to keep it from wearing
and handling better.  For example T900 is a solid
choice for halyards with lots of Vectran blended with
Technora in the core.  VPC is a Vectran blend so one
would think it would work well as a halyard but from
the numbers it looks like it has significantly less than
T900 as well as it's blended with a much cheaper olefin
fiber.  NER also makes V-100 which looks to be
tailored for static loads like halyards with what
looks to be a pure Vectran core.

VPC ... Mid-Market...  right line for the right job, we'll see.

[Jon Schneider]

FWIW, I think Sta-set X is complete cr@p!  Stretches way too much and has a terrible "hand-feel," and is not all that winch-friendly.  My Sta-set X main halyard is three years old, and I noticed these problems from the get-go.  The hand-feel and winchability (new word!), as you can imagine have improved a bit with wear, but are still not great.  I will probably replace it this year with something -anything- else.  I like the idea of the VPC as long as the cover is like Sta-set and not Sta-set X (used to be very different covers; maybe not anymore).  This topic is coming up on a Pearson list as well, and there's a recommendation for Samson's Warpspeed product, which the author claims has much better hand-feel and much lower stretch than Sta-set X.  I wish there was a supplier that would send you samples of the line.  Anybody know of one?

[Stu Jackson]

There are only a few makers (suppliers) of line.  Since WM carries New England rope, so many people use it.  My local chandlery here, Svendsen's, carries Sampson.  I made the horrible mistake of using StaSet for a halyard replacement 5 years ago, don't please ask me why - brain was NOT engaged.  My mainsail luff scallops are lengendary!  Even using our cunningham!  I will eventually replace the halyards with a handle-able and winchable (love that new word!) Sampson line since I can go into the store, check the stretch characteristics with their documentation, and touch and feel the line.  My recommendations are to try to find another chandlery and try 'em out, OR to get recommendations from this board. We used 3/8" which works well using either the winch or going up to the mast and handing from the cockpit with crew.  Since ya only do it once a day, oversizing the main halyard for "feel" makes no sense to me.  "Feel is necessary for jib sheets, and we've already had the long discussion about correctly sizing jib sheets to fit self tailing winches.

[Jon Schneider]

Since ya only do it once a day, oversizing the main halyard for "feel" makes no sense to me.  "Feel is necessary for jib sheets, and we've already had the long discussion about correctly sizing jib sheets to fit self tailing winches.

That's a fair point Stu, but, for me, it's possible that it's more than once a day, although sometimes it's only an adjustment (tensioning) after a major change in wind velocity or if I drop a lunch hook.  I just figure that if I can meet all three criteria of winchability, hand-feel, and low-stretch, that's the way I want to go.  I wouldn't, however, give up low-stretch for hand, so it's also a question of priorities.

[Craig Illman]

This thread is getting interesting. I was considering Samson XLS Extra-T replacing my StaSet-X for my main halyard. Anyone have any experience to contrast it with what's already been discussed (and cussed)?

Craig

[Stu Jackson]

Maine Sail has reported, over on co.com, that Yale is releasing a new Yale Yacht Braid that is supposed to equal StaSetX with much better hand.  Should be on the racks in April.

See: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=104922

[Jon Schneider]

Matching the stretch characteristics of Sta-set X is no great shakes.  Okay for jib sheets maybe, except for the lousy hand and lack of winchability, but a disaster for a halyard on anything other than a Sunfish. 

[rirvine]

A good web site to get an understanding of the wide range of line that is available, their suggested usage, and their relative costs is: http://www.apsltd.com/   This is not your low cost provider but does has a wide range. 

You can find the Samson usage guide here:   

http://mauriprosailing.com/Samson-ropes/samson-ropes-selection-guide.htm