soldering boat AC wiring

[Bobg]

I know "crimp" "solder" and heat shrink, but on my boat AC wiring I just can't seem to get the wire "stainless?" hot enough, and if I use a propane torch, it will work, but it burns everything around it.  Does anyone have information on what to use to get it hot enough to solder?  The electric plug in one I have doesn't do it, and the bunsen solder iron doesn't do it either.  Thanks in advance   Bob on Ghostrider, 1988 hull #613

[Bobg]

Once again I jumped the gun and didn't read the archives first, I do believe the wire is copper tinned, and a torch is the only item that will get it hot enough for buttjoints, butt joints that are wrapped around each other without using a butt fitting. (from Ron)  Also I learned that you CAN leave the plastic on and gently heat up and solder the part of wire that sticks through.  I am noticing many bad fitting on my boat (freshwater) where they have overheated and turned black, (hotwater heater for one) and at the ignition switch, fittings at the regulator was green corroded and ready to break  .  would be nice if I could by a soldering device that puts out a pencil hot flame.  Anyone have one in mind? Thanks again  Bob

[Stu Jackson]

Bob, what gage wiring are you discussing?  Alternating current for 120V?  That should be reltively small wire which a good soldering gun should handle.  The heavier 12V wiring to the batteries does require a torch and vice grips to heat the wire enough.

[Bobg]

Stu, I was talking about the 120 14/3 wire, after research on the web, I may have found a small pencil flame butane that may work, my solder gun which gets red hot, isn't enough to heat the wire to solder, and my propane torch gets to big and hot. When you are upside down and backwards on the boat, you just want to get it done as you all know.   I have been practicing in the garage with different types.  Was just wondering if anyone had a certain brand gun that they would recommend.  Also while searching the web, there is a faction that doesn't recommend butt soldering strand wire.  They say it makes it less flexible and brittle in that area.  I am not going along with that and am sticking with the experts on this board.  it does make for interesting read.  Thanks  Bob

[Ken Juul]

I think any soldering iron of at least 1500w should do the job.  I use an antique Weller, pistol shaped with the on/off trigger.  Make sure the tip is clean and well coated with solder. Another thing to check is the heating element connections, the little nuts that hold the tip to the twin "barrels" tend to loosen with heat cycles and on my electric pencil iron, the element tends to unscrew itself from the handle.

Maybe I don't understand your definitition, to me a butt joint is end to end with solder holding the wires together.  When I learned to solder it was stressed that the solder is the weakest part of the joint, it is not "glue", it is a conduction enhancer.  All joints should have a good mechanical bond before applying solder.  Think about how easy it is to tear a length of solder off the spool, it is no stronger when applied to wires.  Perhaps that is why they are calling it a brittle joint.

[cree fetterman]

I would think a small pair of vicegrips placed on the beginning of the insulation would protect the insulation from getting burned by "wicking" away the extra heat and providing a barrier to the flame getting to the insulation.
Cree

[Ron Hill]

Bob : Ken is correct about the 1500W Weller.  I have one and frequently solder #4 wire to terminals with it.  If you can't get an electric one, ANCOR (West Marine, Defender etc) makes a butane mini torch that I've also soldered with - very pointed direct flame.  Used that torch for the many connections of my recent windlass installation (Mainsheet Nov 2007) so I didn't have to screw around with an extension cord.

I've soldered every connection that I can get my hands on in the boat to include many many many butt joints.  I have NEVER had one of them fail, crack or give way.  Even the connections on the alternator - with all of that engine vibration have held for over 4500 hours running time!!!!!
Hope this helps.   

[Bobg]

Ken, by butt joint, I meant twisting both ends together lengthwise and then solder, then slip the heat shrink over it, that spot in the wire will be stiff, (not stranded any longer) therefore subject to maybe break. pretty unlikely though.  Thank you all,   Bob

[Ken Juul]

That is the proper way to do it.  I haven't had any problems with that kind of joint and I have a bunch.  If you are worried about it, make sure it is supported to the wire bundle with zip ties.