Proper support during winter storage.

[Momentum M]

Another view

[Ron Hill]

Guys : I asked the factory the weight proportion question when I first hauled my boat in 1989.  They said that 75% of the weight should be on the keel and 25% on the jack stands. 
BTW, ALWAYS use 6 jack stands (with the 6"x6" plywood pads under the legs) and if you have a wing keel really crank the rear most stand tight (to put more weight on the nose of the wing).

Jon : The factory has always answered my questions!!!  They are there to make sure that Catalina owners are happy and hope that they will move UP in the Catalina line!!  A thought

[Jon Schneider]

Momentum, this whole cradle idea is really seeming like a major PITA to me, but I have to say you (I mean your boat) have the prettiest keel/hull I've ever seen.  Man, if I weren't married to s/v Atlantic Rose....

Ron, I think Catalina is great.  I especially love that it's a privately-owned American company.  If I buy a new boat, it will be a C42, mostly because I love the boat but also because I really want to support American industry, especially when it kicks butt.  That said, I really think the company is there to make money for Frank, Gerry, and Sharon, who I'm sure are great people and deserve what little money this industry squeezes out.  I'm just saying, I don't think they know jack (pun intended) about cradles or stands, and I'm not sure they -or anybody- really understands the properties of fiberglass as it ages other than maybe some scientists at DuPont (or the rest of us who have to figure it out).

[sailingdream]

No kidding on the good looking keel. Sheeesh mine looks like it just came back from battle and it didn't win! :)

Maybe it's never been in the water and has only been on the cradle? :)  Why not, how many people keep their boats on the dock and never take it out for a sail.

[tonywright]

Serge/Momentum

I note that the front of your keel is not on the centre support rail, and there is a large amount of rail available further aft. I think that the keel should be fully supported along its length. Consider Ron's post that the front end of the wing keel should be carrying a lot of the weight.  Is the cradle possibly assembled wrong? Maybe the bow supports and aft supports are somehow reversed on the cradle? Is this a Marine Cradle Shop cradle? Maybe you should get them to look at the pics and advise you.

I will try and take some pictures of mine this weekend and post (I am travelling this week).

Tony

[Sundance]

Here is a picture of our cradle immediately after it was placed.  You can see it is not correctly blocked, I had them add additional blocking under the keel and at the mid point of the cradle.  I can tell you that this is probably the original cradle from 1989, it is rusted, but this summer I plan to sand and paint.  It is my experience that in the Great Lakes region most boats are sold with cradles.  I spoke with one of the local brokers and they said they automatically order cradles with every new boat they sell.  With the little faith I have in the boat yard, I know every year my boat will be well supported during the winter months. 

[Jon Schneider]

Interestingly, I really wonder if a cradle provides better support than jack stands.  I have six jack stands compared to the four support points of a cradle (at least of the one shown).  Perhaps it doesn't matter all that much, since these support points are not supposed to be "support" points in terms of significant weight bearing, but rather more like "balance" points to keep the boat steady on its keel. 

[tonywright]

Jon

Ron quoted Catalina as saying 25% of the weight should be on the jack stands/cradle pads. Given that most of us are finding the weight somewhere between 15,000 and 18,000 pounds (call it 16,000 average) that means 4,000 pounds distributed over the number of stands/pads. So about 750 to 1,000 pounds each. So for you engineers out there, would we normally be cranking on that much weight with a jack stand/pad?

I have noted that when mine is out of the water, whether on jack stands or on the cradle, the doors under the galley sink stick in the frame (so I leave them partly open). I assume that this is a clear sign of slight hull distortion. I have hesitated to crank up the rear pads too much, thinking that it might put too much pressure on the hull. But maybe I should? Or maybe add a couple of jack stands?

Re the number of pads, take a look at the owner's manual for the MK II on the main site, page 61. This shows only 4 pads required. (my cradle, like Momentum,  has 6).  This diagram also shows recommended lifting points. I have found that if you place the aft strap in the position shown, the boat will swing backwards when lifted. If I place the aft strap in line with the aftmost bulkhead, this seems to give a balanced lift with no swing backward or forward.  The other C34's in the club do this as well.  Anyone else noticed this?

Tony

[Jon Schneider]

I don't know what to make of the correct number of support pads.  I was always taught that there would typically be two on each side, one at each bulkhead.  My yard insists on placing three support points on each side.  I make sure that the third one is on a stringer. 

Regarding CY's pronouncement of 25% of the weight on the supports, I don't believe that for a second.  It's just too convenient a number.  It was pulled out of a place where the sun don't shine, and I don't mean the bilge (or maybe I do).  Ideally, I think it should be much less that 25%, but I suppose it could approach that neighborhood if improperly balanced. 

Regarding your warped galley doors (I have a Mk 1.5, so I only have one door, which doesn't get noticeably distorted when on the hard), I think you have to expect some amount of distortion for an object that goes from being balanced ubiquitously to one that's balanced on the head of a pin (the keel).  It's a hard life our boats have. 

[Joe Kern]

Karma smile point added for outstanding use of ubiquitously in an e-mail about jack stands.  Well done.

Joe

[Jon Schneider]

Right back at you with karma for noticing my use of ubiquity.  It's my second favorite word after "specificity."  In this case, though, I toyed with the idea of "omni-balance," which I think was more what I meant, but "ubiquity" has such a nice, musical sound to it, that I went with the feeling ;)

[Roc]

Our marina uses 8 stands, four on each side.  Also, I notice the cabinetry inside has slightly greater gaps in some places due to flexing.  The gaps go back to normal when back in the water.

[tonywright]

Here is a promised picture of my boat on the cradle. As Momemtum M says, the centre and aft supports are 30", The front are 39", but should probably be 40-42".  I do the setup and blocking myself. Note the blocks support at every corner, and are doubled up under under the keel,. I use pieces of plywood and a spirit level to level it.

Tony

[Ron Hill]

Guys : The factory shipping cradles that I've seen have 3 pads on the side. 
As I mentioned in the Mainsheet many years ago , be where of yards puttin the boat in the cradle backwards.  Gerry Douglas mentioned this to me!  Look in your owners manual and it shows a front and back of the cradle.   

[pjcomeau]

Our yard is very small and packed and often needs to be able to move boats around in spring before launch and in fall after pull out, so to facilitate this all our boats are on cradles (of different build quality). Using a special trailer (I'm assuming common in other yards and designed for this purpose) they can move boats around. We are a volunteer club and would assist in getting these boats moved. New arrivals sometimes have jackstand until the next pull out.

A good example, right now we are having major flooding (Many Canadians would have heard on the news about the Saint John river and NB flooding).

As for my cradle I had to get it built before the boat arrived last December. I used the information from the 1988 owners manual that I got from this site. On page 54 picture 5.2 is shows specs for a 4 pad cradle for a fin keel. I gave these specs to our yard manager (he builds cradles on the side). He charges $1500. I'm not sure if it is positioned exactly as described on spec sheet, since I ended up with two thru hulls under pads (galley sink on one side, and one ore more from the head side). We also did not shim the from of the keel so the boat leans forward a bit, I will either shim the front of the cradle or keel for next winter so water drains out of cockpit once uncovered in spring. You can see in the picture from previous post that the front of his cradle is shimmed higher.