Florida or Northern States

[pjcomeau]

I'm looking at Catalina 34's along te east coast. There is a very nice looking one (according to a large number of pictures) in Florida that is very well priced. I'm from Canada where we only have our boats in for a few months of the year and the boys around the yard are telling o stay away from a Florida boat. My question is, shouldn't an adequate marine survey give me a good indication of the hull and deck? What should the marine survey look for (anything in particular about a 1986 Catalina 34 they should look for)? It's been awlgriped back in March, could it be hiding something, will a survey catch it?

The pictures shows a very well taken of boat (better then the ones up in New England states and alot cheaper). I'm thinking if shipping / hauling is not to bad, then this could be a good deal...

Any comments? Any Canadian / New Englanders buy a Florida (or southern) Cataliana / or other boat?

Is it nuts to depend on a marine survey only (i.e. not even go down to see it)?

Thanks

[Terry Forshier]

I am a Florida boater and my boat has been in Ga or FL waters all 19 years. It does not come out for long haul outs and winter periods. Every 2 years It comes out and gets a bottom job but other than that a regular dive under to pop off a few barnacles. However it gets me on it nearly every day as it is in the back yard canal. It never suffers for standing waterfrom blocked scuppers, bumping docks and usually does not hit rocks as we have a sandy bottom here. I have a lot of sunbrella on it and sun shades for the hot summer months. I also keep the AC on most of the summer hot humid days.  Before I bought the boat it had had a NEW bottom scrape, barrier coat etc so I imagine it good for another 10-15 years without blister trouble. (surveyor said NO blisters or water absorption in the hull last year) . My boat could pass for new inside and this year after the wax up will look like new outside.
Now, I lived in Illiinois awhile. I had a boat there. It suffered in the winter with snow and ice on it. Hot cold hot cold then the tarp would rip and it would get all that winter stuff all over the deck etc. The It had to be hauled, lifed out, set on a cradel or trailer and the hauled over the road to a resting place where it sat alone at mercy to the elements all winter. Then each year hauled back rerigged and placed in the water again. Lots of bouncing on the hard.
So which boat is better cared for? ????

[tonywright]

Why don't you get someone like George Ward to represent you as a buyer's agent?  It won't cost you or the listing seller anything, and he knows his way around bringing boat up from the US. While there are clearly exceptions to any rule, he also advised that boats south of Annapolis tend to sit in hotter sun and warmer (usually saltier) water for longer periods.

Sun is the enemy of fibreglass/gelcoat. Gelcoat will age and discolour much faster under brighter/hotter conditions. Any wood in Florida conditions will age much faster than in Canada. The extreme humidity makes Florida boats very prone to mildew inside, which is very hard to eradicate, once it takes hold in inaccessible places deep inside lockers, under floors etc.

Heat and salt work together to make corrosion of all metal accelerate. Expect a lot of corroded metal surfaces, and expect the engine systems to need much more corrosion-related maintenance. Rigging may need replacing, and mast and boom surfaces refinishing.  Electrical systems would show more corrosion than a northern boat.

Finding a good surveyor can be hit and miss. Local surveyors will compare what they find to other Florida-based boats. If you want a surveyor to check out a boat for you, you can do this before or after making an offer. But I would always make an offer subject to satisfactory inspection and sea-trial, to see if the boat truly is "as advertised".  A quick non-binding inspection before offer will cost you far less than a trip down there.

Lastly, Florida is of course subject to the occasional hurricane. You want to know if the boat you are buying has in any way been hurricane-damaged. Because the C34 is such a well-built boat, they do survive hurricanes with often not much more than superficial damage. So you can find quite a deal, if you are willing to invest time and money in the repairs.

If you decide to purchase and want it shipped up, expect about $5000 for the trip from Florida.  I made a number of recommendations for the shipment in another post. If you are going to bring it up into our winter, make sure that you winterize the boat before it sets out, or wait until the spring.  Remember that a Florida boat probably won't have a cradle or a winter cover, and you will need both. (add $4,500 at least).

I bought a boat in Boston, and brought it to Canada last year, and I used George to help me. Glad I did.  Let me know if I can help with any more info.

[Sundance]

I purchased my C34 last October.  Here is my opinion, if the deal is too good to me true, it is.  When I bought mine, the broker basically said that the C34 is a higher demand boat, if someone is dumping it, there must be a reason, even if the survey doesn't pick it up.  From what I observed, this holds true.  My 2 cents.

[RV61]

I purchased a 1986 and had a survey done but I would not purchase a boat without seeing it .as well as being present for the survey itself and would also recommend finding a surveyor independent of  selling parties. Many thing found on this site for things to look for as well as Marine survey sites found on the web. I would also say if the price is significantly lower than market there is a reason. If you understand the reasons and the cost of the fix it may be a good buy.
I purchased my 1986 and in person she looked great however it was window  dressing. Teak looked good and was glass recently detailed and waxed cleaned however there was quite a list of other things that needed fixing however I paid the rock bottom price and spent the difference between market and price paid. I am happy I went this direction as with the help of this board have brought her back to good condition while learning all the different systems along the way. Good luck The C34 is a great boat most anything on it is fixable and the great thing is most anything that needs repair the fix can be found right here at the association.

[karista]

We have sailed our boat down to Florida from Lake Ontario where she spend most of her life. I concur with an earlier response in regards to the annual haul-out and launch, which always somehow caused some sort of damage, especially with the stepping of the mast. You do not need a cradle, in fact most marinas no longer allow them due to their storage problems. In Maryland none of the marinas we stayed in allowed cradles. We were using 8 Boat Jack stands for 12 years up north and never had a problem. The boat requires a little more maintenance down here in Fl, as mentioned earlier and if done, the boat will be just as good as any boat up north. So my advice would be, get to know the history of the boat, its owners knowledge/attention to maintenance and then if satisfied, hire a good surveyor. The difference between Florida and a northern boat would not enter in my equation, my boat looks as good as it did up north and has not had the winter stress and hauling in/out damages.

[Stu Jackson]

pj

Welcome.  If you use the search feature and type in "weblog" there are a number of interesting things that you will find about people in your situation.  Boats are boats, we have a 1986 and sail her every week.

Also, go here http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq.html and read the top few stories.  The FAQs are valuable.

A Guide to this site can be found at:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2629.0

If it was me, I'd get a good surveyor and go see the boat myself.  The competitive price could well be many of a lots of things, paranoia being one    but it could also be just a "basic" boat that still has 1986 stuff on it with no upgrades like alternator regulator, nav instruments, TVs, etc..  All the stuff this group of folks have been doing to their boats.  What's the HULL NUMBER? (sail #, pretty much the same thing).

If you're serious about the boat, read the material I've suggested before you go to see the boat.

Good luck, and anything else we can do please let us know.

[Mike Vaccaro]

One technique to consider when you are looking at a boat outside of your local area is to have a surveyor do a quick look on your behalf.  You can usually arrange for an hour or so of cursory inspection by an objective assessor--then you can make a determination if a trip or full survey is warranted.  The cost of this type of inspection is minimal.  The Boat US website has quite a few surveyors listed.  You can also get lists from accreditation agencies.  The last person to ask is the listing broker--he has a direct interest in a favorable report or survey! 

Another option is to request high resolution photos, especially of key areas such as the bilge, engine compartment, running gear, bulkhead tabbing, chainplates, standing and running rigging, battery compartment, wiring etc. to give you a general feel for condition.  Two areas in the C34 that give you good access to important equipment are under the sink in the galley and under the sink in the head--these can be quickly accessed without having to remove cushions or disassemble bulkheads.  Engine access is also convenient.  The photo resolution used for typical internet postings is generally not sufficient to establish condition.  A quick look at mechanical spaces provides a good venue to ascertain the quality of the basic upkeep maintenance on any boat.  Obvious signs of neglect or possible problems are visible dirt, corrosion, leaks and disorderly or improperly terminated wiring. 

Some owners maintain a detailed maintenance log or records.  These are generally made available for inspection if they exist, and can be copied for long-distance negociation.     

These photos could be obtained as part of a general condition survey (i.e., a quick look type of inspection) or from a broker.  Brokers may already have these photos on hand and have simply reduced the resolution for advertising purposes.  Brokers will generally make a trip to the boat if you are seriously considering buying a particular boat or if it is conveniently available.  It always behooves you to be up front with the broker to let him know if you are simply tire-kicking.  If you are tire-kicking, an offer to defray expenses, e.g., postage, cost of copies, photos etc. can help.   

Another resource is this organization.  If you poll the group, there may be a C34 owner in the area that a boat is located that might be willing to take a look on your behalf.

If you are not comfortable with this process or want some additional help that you can trust, you may consider finding a broker near you that can act as a buyer's agent on your behalf. 

One of the great things about the C34 is the number of hulls available--there are plenty of good boats on the market (even more if the C36 is also on your short list)!  A well-maintained "long distance" boat can be a better value than something close by, but you have to do the math. 

Best of luck,

Mike   

[Ron Hill]

pj : Here are some generalities :
The northern boats might have dryer hulls as they are pulled annually.  If the mast is removed some or all of the mast wiring may have been changed.
The southern boats might have more UV damage.

Don't think that pulling a boat is particularly damaging if the operator know what he's doing.

I'd get a preliminary report on any interested boat from any other C34 owner, but I'd damn sure be there WITH the surveyor when he inspects that boat. 
Some thoughts.   

[Footloose]

PJ

I have been following this and I think that you are getting good advice.  I have to ask if you are on fresh or salt water?  The advice you are getting to stay away from a FL boat may be due to the salt.  Here, on Lake Champlain, there seems to be a feeling that salt water boats are worth less and that you should pay a premium for a "fresh water boat".  I have friends that have purcahsed boats from down south and don't seem to have any more problems than I do.  I think you will find that deck fasteners may be harder to remove, but these boats were made to go coastal cruising in the ocean.  I wouldn't let a well maintained boat get away.  They can be hard to find.

I hope in have muddied the waters enough for you.

[Tom Glennon]

e-mail me.... I am thinking of selling my 87 catalina.  Located in Mattapoisett, Massachusetts.
glennoli@comcast.net

[pjcomeau]

Thank you very much for all your comments! I'm still listening.

The common point is that I SHOULD see the boat in person and best to there when survey is done. So I''ll add that to cost (8hr drive to various parts of Mass versus flight to Florida).

I got quotes from Uship.com that are lower then I expected (at least two had verifiable references).


Here is the boat in florida:

http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&currencyid=100&boat_id=1761817&checked_boats=1761817&back=%2Fcore%2Flisting%2Fcache%2FsearchResults.jsp%3FfromYear%3D1985%26type%3D%2528Sail%2529%26hmid%3D0%26sm%3D3%26enid%3D0%26toYear%3D1995%26luom%3D126%26currencyid%3D100%26toLength%3D34%26cit%3Dtrue%26boatsAddedSelected%3D-1%26ftid%3D0%26ps%3D100%26fromLength%3D34%26man%3Dcatalina%26slim%3Dquick%26rid%3D100%26rid%3D101%26rid%3D104&searchtype=

The current owner has written in this forum and according to one of his postings the previous owner has postings in the Voyages section "Loco Viento" or "Viento Loco".

Again thanks, any additional info will always be welcomed!

[Stu Jackson]

Here's the link to the Voyages article:  http://www.c34.org/voyages/lvcuba.html

Glen Herman shows up in our database as the owner of hull #195, moved the boat in the late 90's from San Diego to Boca Raton.  We show no other C34 IA member owner for hull #195 after 2001 when Glen's membership expired.  Of course, the new owner could have participated in the website or other postings without becoming an IA member.

Great story, looks nice, about the same as our #224, and many others' early boats.

If you've read Steve Lyle's Weblog and the others I suggested, you'll know what to look for (even better than the surveyor as far as C34-particular issues).

Good luck.

[Wayne]

The pictures look pretty good.  That bilge--spotless.
Hey, a vacation boat for cruisin' the keys--maybe I'll hop in on this listing too! (Just kidding).
I've seen lots of pictures of boats on Yachtworld; this one looks pretty clean and well kept to me.

[Terry Forshier]

Looking at the photos and the price I would say a trip to Fl is in order. Looks like a good deal. One reason why the lower price might be that the wing keel boats are a lot more popular in Florida because we coastal cruise in the bahamas, Keys and up the Western coast of Florida. Always more shallow