Backing to Starboard

[waterdog]

It's been a little more than a month.   4 weekends of some really fabulous sailing and one weekend of installing a diesel heater.   All good fun.   I have absolutely no complaints about the new boat.  When you buy something that is nineteen years old and reasonably complex, you expect to find at least one nasty surprise somewhere, but as I open up electrical panels and drill holes in diesel tanks, I find that the boat is in near new condition.   Not fanatically maintained, just untouched and well preserved.   It could be five years old.   (except every light in the cabin and they're all replaced now).

Life is good.   Well except for a few things...

The one challenge I have is actually getting out of my slip.   

Moorage is tight in Vancouver.   People buy brand new boats and leave them sitting on the hard for two years before they can splash them in the drink.   So when my marina manager assigned me to my new 35' slip that the stern of my 34' boat hangs out of by 4ft, I just smiled and wrote the cheque.  Between me and my neighbour, there is exactly one foot of space (on a perfectly executed docking maneuver the fenders kind of compress and roll against each other as they pass).   There is about 38 feet between the piling on my port side and the transoms of the boats opposite.   I need to make a sharp turn to starboard in a little more than a boat length as I back out. 

You're already smiling.   You know all about the whole prop walk thing.   But wait it get's better.   After a big rainstorm the creek at the end of the cove (my starboard side) registers 11 on the knot meter of the little sailboat over on the sales dock (sea trials only on dry days at high tide - I have pictures that make it look like a river rafting adventure).   My slip is 30 boats away and two aisles over so I'm sure I'm only dealing with an unfavourable current of 2 to 3 knots.   On a perfect day with an incoming tide and and a no wind or wind on the port beam with a good shot of  throttle in reverse for half a boat length or so, I can get enough way on, shift to neutral,  I can turn about 45 degrees.     Another shot of throttle in forward with the wheel hard over the other way avoids imminent gelcoat and pushpit rail demise and kicks the stern around enough that I am nearly pointed in the right direction and a little work from the foredeck crew with a boat hook on the piling (by the way the shiny new telescoping boat hook from WM? - crap) and we're on our way.   

With an incoming tide or wind on the starboard beam, (common) I end up backing down the channel past another 25 boats until I can turn around.    Any suggestions from veteran C34 handlers?   There was a great FAQ on backing into a slip, but I'm damned if I can back out.   

Thanks,

Steve

BTW - Why is that the marine stores all sell shiny deck fill fittings marked "diesel", "water", "waste" or "gas", but nowhere can I find a fitting marked "rum"?   Without the right parts that project may have to wait until after the windlass install and the dodger... 

[Ken Juul]

Is it possible to use a spring line on your stbd side to pull your stern to stbd as you back out?  Depending on slip arrangement you might need a long line to your neighbors stbd stern piling.   
http://www.cruising.sailingcourse.com/docking.htm  has some ideas and graphics about close quarters handling.  None really meet your situation but can give you some ideas on how to handle it.

[tommyt]

I would agree with Ken, a spring line would seem to be your best bet. A source that I have always enjoyed is Capt. Jack Klang of Quantum Sails. He has written a few guides: one on docking and manuevering, the other on storm preperation. He is a master with lines and practical tips on using them to your advantage. I know that his Cruising with Quantum book has examples of using springs to get out of tight slips and also the usage of a spring to back into a tight slip in wind and current.

I have the book, but believe that it is also available to read at www.quantumsails.com . I would have checked that fact, but some of us have only dial up service available to us, and I know that the file takes forever to get on dial up. Thats why I have the book.

Good Luck

[Stu Jackson]

It was windy the other day and one of our neighbors on the other side of our fairway backed out.  He'd come up from his slip about 10 boats down and was only five boats from the end of the fairway into a larger "turning area" when he tried to turn around in the narrower fairway!  No clue why.  He had two empty slips to use to "poke" his bow into, but chose to try it between boats.  He also turned his stern to starboard (!) which is exactly the reason he had to back out of his slip to begin with.  He just barely made it without crunching the boats behind and in front of him.

Reason for the story:  If backing out works for you without damaging your boat or anyone else's, why not just do it?  You may just start a new trend.

Also, knowing you're new to the marina, you might want to watch what others do and ask around.

[Rick Johnson]

Steve, I just finished a Royal Yachting Association Day Skipper course in the Solent (U.K.).  We spent lots of time docking and un-docking (?) with strong currents and wind.  I'd have to say it was a bit frightening for someone who learned to sail off Southern California (light winds and currents).  Fortunately, the instructor was very knowledgable and had lots of tricks.  I'll see if I can find any documentation of what we practiced and send it to you.  You may know all tricks already but I found several things that our cousins across the pond do differently and perhaps better.  Especially, having pubs with their own private docks...

Cheers,

Rick

[Chris Martinson]

Steve:

I'm not sure that I can explain this properly and am in no way stating I'm a veratern handle but I have a similar situation on a smaller scale and have come up with a system that works for me with out the use of brute strength and only needs a boat hook to grab a line off a cleat on a piling.....some may say my method is cheating since I use several lines....i've been called worse.

I actually back into my slip - this provides better control in my opinion and allows better boarding in my case.  I have a dock behind the stern and a partial finger pier on the port side with a piling on both port and starboard sides near the bow - my bow sticks out a couple of feet. 

I go  forward down the row of boats and point my bow towards the starboard side piling (all references based on file postion in the slip - bow outward) on the port side of the boat and go into neutral...the prevailng wind blows my boat into the port side of my slip.  I have to watch out for the anchor on the motor yacht in the next slip over...I over shoot my slip and bring the stern of the boat to the piling - starboard side.  Prior to getting there - the mate uses the boat hook to grab a dock line left hanging off a cleat near the waterline.  I am now basically perpendicular to my slip with my stern even with the piling - this is the hardest part because of the projection of the bow/anchor on the boat next to me.


I tie the line on the stern cleat and start backing up...it pushes me away from the piling but the line pulls me in and I start to loosen up on the line and pivot back into my slip.  On the other side - with the partial pier - I installed a dock line from the piling at the end of the pier to the piling at the bow end of the same side.  I have a short line with a large brass clip on it and while I start to back into my slip pivoting off the piling I "stall" - leave the throttle in a postion where I don't move and hook the clip onto the liine between the two pilings and then tighten it up and tie it off on the boats stern port cleat...this keeps the boats stern  parallel to the pilings - this is key when the tide gets you or the wind picks up....at the same time the mate at the bow gets the bow line off the piling and I then continue to back into the slip held by my port stern line and loosening up on the dock line on my starboard boat side. 

Not without issues - especially with new crew - however I've never hit either boat on either side - we do put fenders over...there is only about 10 to 12 inches between us and the  boat on the starboard side.  I have been doing using this method with this particular slip for 3 years and don't see any difference in my rub rail from either side.

I hope I've explained this - not easy - if you are interested or have questions...let me know and I can sketch this up and will scan and email it or attach it if I can figure out how...

Chris Martinson
More Therapy
#945

[waterdog]

Thanks for the responses!   

I was hoping for one of those insightful C34 secrets that would reveal some easy truth that was hidden to me.  This one is a bit tricky.   A spring off the neighbour's piling would be nice, but there is so much claptrap hanging off his transom (which also overhangs his finger) that I have a feeling I would be buying him a new crab trap after one or two tries.   Maybe I should just use his stern cleat!   

Backing all the way out to the turning area seemed like a great idea until last weekend when we were happily barrelling down the channel when another boat turned the corner to come in.   It was a dodgy maneuver trying to take way off and get over to the side of the channel while the wind and current wanted to swing the bow around.   I'm not totally comfortable with this approach. 

But you all got me thinking.   I tightened up the packing gland last weekend and we arrived at another dock some distance away and I realized I'd forgotten to check for drip rate and heat build up under power.   So I fired up the engine while tied to the dock, put it in forward and ran it about 1500 rpm.   I jumped off the boat to check that all the lines were secure and noticed that 3 of them were slack and only the after bow spring was under tension with the boat nice and snug against the dock.    I got back on the boat and played with the wheel a bit and noticed that I had full right rudder.   I turned it full left and the stern kicked out until the stern line was tight.   Back and forth with the wheel and in and out the stern would go.  Built in stern thruster!

I think I might try easing back out of the slip until my bow is about even with the piling.   A line around the piling to the bow, with fenders in the right spots, with a shot of forward thrust and full left rudder may just kick my transom to the right exactly as I want it.   No need for any manhandling with springs.  I'll see if this is possible without exotic fenders, gellcoat repairs and/or referencing the knowledgebase on how to straighten pullpit rails.     

Funny, my last boat that was 10,000 lbs lighter and anything could be done with a boat hook.   All this fancy close quarter maneuvering stuff seemed largely irrelevant.  But I must say the C34 handles way better than the old 26' twin-keeled fixed-outboard aft of the skeg-hung rudder vessel I was used to.   

And I absolutely love that I can give the helm to my eight year old doing 6.5 knots on a broad reach and he has no trouble keeping the boat on track.  Hmmm.   Maybe I should have Foster back the boat out of the slip.   

   

[waterdog]

An update.   

I've had the boat out at least a half dozen times since posting the original question.  The problem can be solved completely at the helm without skilled crew doing line work on the foredeck.   It just takes practice.   

A big shot of throttle gets way on in reverse - shift to neutral half way across with helm hard to the right - helm hard to left with a good shot of forward throttle as my transom approaches the boats opposite.   I can usually make the turn in one try now.   Timing is everything.   It's a game of nerves and inches.
It seems to be entirely repeatable and is working in all conditions.

Guests aboard are dazzled by the feat of great boat handling.   Therein lies the problem.   It might be great boat handling, but it's not great seamanship.   The manuever is "hot".   That is it requires active steering and is totally depenendent on forward thrust of the prop at the right time to avoid the collision while backing.   If there should ever be a problem with the engine stalling or shift linkage - crunch.   (A couple of years ago there was a ferry a few miles from me loaded with a few hundred cars that lost reverse thrust due to a $5 pin being disconnected so it steered into a marina to avoid hitting the dock and sank 20 boats before running gently aground - a little empirical evidence to suggest my strategy is not entirely sound.)

So I'll continue to refine and think it through, but I'm not having any trouble getting out of the slip now.   Thanks for the feedback on this issue.

Steve

Still no luck on finding a deck fill marked "rum".     

[Steve S.]

Steve,  I have  a similar problem, but being on the Chesapeake, rarely do I need to fight currents at the dock.  Also, our fairway must be at least 50 feet so I use Stu's solution and just keep backing out.  I don't like doing it as I have had the same issue with incoming boats, or boats passing the head of the fairway.

But here's a longer term idea.  Have you thought of getting a left handed prop?  Then the prop walk would be to starboard rather than port.  You would just have to get used to the idea of shifting the back to go forward, and forward to go back.

[Stu Jackson]

The real trick is giving the throttle enough oomph to get the boat moving in reverse so the rudder begins to work.  Well done!

[waterdog]

A left hand prop?  That's a clever idea.   However, when they rebuild the other half of the marina next year and assign me a new slip, I would be assured to get one where I would want a right hand prop.   Murphy has a way of looking after these things.   Just for amusement - here's the source of the cross current...

[Ron Hill]

Steve : You never mentioned if you have a 2 or 3 bladed prop.  You might also consider an elliptical rudder as it has more surface area giving better response. 
The mid ship line to pivot around works every time.  A few thoughts   

[Joe and Carol]

     Our Catalina is in the first slip of a long dock. Space to turn is short especially during winds countering our efforts.  Usually we are docked bow into prevailing winds.   Have you watched the wind swirls of the rainy midwest the last two months? 
     We installed dock wheels on the corners.  We have a fender ready to drop between whatever we think we might hit.  The dilemma between committing to fast enough speed to have rudder effectiveness and deciding to back or turn is sometimes complicated by wind gusts.  Or the dock cable that serves as a constant barrier.  I have found the same plan cannot apply to all wind conditions.
     Others on our dock are glad to help with lines.  We greatly appreciate their help.  So far we have made the right decisions.

     I wish boats bow out would remove their anchors from sticking out.  I have seen them intrude lifelines and stanchions.  Its ugly!   Maybe they serve as fair warning not to egress another boats comfort zone.  Anyway, we practice.   A ninety degree turn under good power beats a slow underpowered gliding curve any day!  We are learning the guidance control of the stern makes success in the turn.  Sometimes we immediately return to our slip if we sense things might get the best of us. 

     We just recently enjoyed a trip on board a SpinDrift 58 with the new owner receiving docking instruction.  He had joy of approximately four feet distance from his neighbor.  And twin drive, bow thruster.  Seems like my getting in and out maneuvers pale in comparison to his.  Good Luck!

[ssk]

I just discovered the more about the backing characteristics of an Ericson 34, his prop walk, and the comparative hardness of his transom versus mine than I ever wanted to know.  His transom won hands down.  He has a scratch, I have a chunk out of the lower port side edge.  He backed out of his slip under too much power with a novice at the helm.  By the time he got to the cockpit, he had a $400 glass/gel coat repair bill about to be presented to him. My boat was in the slip and he was across the way a few slips down. 

He got a great lesson in prop walk and the durability of his hull.  And I know nowto hang big orange fenders on my stern for him and the powerboat drivers who keep forgetting to steer with their throttles.  When we stay at the dock, we always have someone on the alert for the bumper car drivers and we all get our our poles ready to fend off.  Sometimes I feel like my boat is one of those bumpers in a pinball machine.  Hit me and get 50,000 extra points.  Oh well I was going to give it a wax job anyway.   ~_/)~~