Low Engine Hours

[waterdog]

We continue on our hunt for a new C34.   We were about to put an offer on an '88 and a cleaner version, same year, came on the market.   We went to see it today, nice boat.   It was originally a California boat and was reported to have only 500 engine hours.   I assumed that the engine hour meter must have been broken for a decade.    When I looked at the engine, I was completely stunned.   It looked absolutely brand new.   Not a drop of oil or dirt anywhere.    All the original paint intact.  No evidence that it has been meticulously cleaned, it just looks like it has sat there living a good life.   

We will of course have the engine surveyed.   I understand that under use of a diesel is not necessarily a good thing.   What would be the specific concerns / potential problems on 19 year old engine with only 500 hours? 

Also the forward hatch has very serious crazing (not surface scratches to be polished).   Is this purely a cosmetic problem or does it seriously weaken the hatch?   

Thanks,

Steve Dolling
Name ?  Hull # ?

[BillG]

Can't comment on  under use of a diesel engine, but I have a 87 and only have 563 hours on the engine and it runs great.

[Jon Schneider]

It's not so much "low use" of a diesel that's problematic as it is short use.  In theory, deposits get built up in the cylinders.  I'm a little bit of a doubter of this phenomenon because I've never seen actual data on comparative testing done between long-use engines and short-use engines.  That said, I follow a Charlie Brown philosophy and always run my engine for about 15 minutes at least to operate it at running temp/speed for a while.  The problem for you is you won't really know if this engine was run 15,000 times for two minutes or 2,000 times for 15 minutes.  If the theory is correct, the former would be much worse than the latter.  One of the things you might do is ask the current owner how long he's had the boat and what kind of sailing he did in it.  And does he know how the boat was used by the PO.  Was he a day sailor?  A lot of hours get added by cruisers.  You can never tell if a boat that's been cruised has "suffered" from lots of short engine uses in/out of the marina, but whose higher hours get clocked by the various 12 hour motor runs for multiple days during the cruises.  Can you tell from the marina that it's in if it's a 30 second motor out to where'd want to start sailing or is it a 10 minute cruise? 

Completely unauthoritatively, I'd say lower engine hours are a thing to be cherished.  Make sure you get a real engine surveyor (usually different from a generalist).  Make sure a compression test is done.  Pretty much anything other than issues around the pistons and valves would be simple to fix. 

Re the hatch crazing, I had the same problem.  I can't imagine that anything that could be described as "crazing" could be a serious problem.  You can easily get that lens replaced by Select Plastics in Connecticut (sent them the whole hatch; they do the replacement) for about $350 (yes, I know, it seemed expensive to me, too, for a piece of plastic, but it's well worth it.)

[Mark G]

These guys are nationally renowned for their diesel expertise. You might give them a call. Good luck.
http://www.torresen.com/

[Stephen Butler]

We purchased our 1990 C34, approximately 3 years ago with under 600 hours on an engine that you could eat off of.  Runs great!  We also follow the same advice that Jon gave...run it up to temperature every now and then.  About the crazed front hatch...we were concerned about this on our boatbefore purchasing , but 2 marine surveyors and the hatch manufacturer all stated that except for cosmetic reasons, there was no reason to replace the lens.  If however there had be scratches along with the crazing, then immediate replacement was in order. The admiral likes the crazing and I am indifferent, so the original hatch lens remains for now. 

A final comment...I have read somewhere, that C34s have the highest percentage of engineers and technical types as owners, than any other make or model of boat.   Do not know how one would ever collect or verify this data, but I am always amazed at the technical discussions on the C34 web site and in the MainSheet, and on the comparatively (to other older brands and models) great condition that we see for C34s.    Guess we are biased!

[joe]

i bought my '88 one year ago and it had less than 500 hours. the engine runs great, but i understand that you should run it for about 45 minutes  once a month to burn out any buildup. there was a good article in one of the magazines about motor usage and maintenence which i keep on the boat. if i get to the boat in the next two weeks get the reference for you

[Ron Hill]

Steve : I've professed what Jon said for the past 20 years.  I'd like to see about 50 to 100 hours /year on an engine.  Diesels like to be run!!
Look at all of the hoses.  If they are painted the same color as the engine, they are the original hoses.  Then ask yourself if you think 20 year old hoses are what you'd like on your automobile?! 

If you buy the boat the first thing I'd do is to dump all of the fuel and change out/clean the fuel tank.  If there's an ammeter in the engine instrument panel (or trailer connectors on the engine wiring harness) you'll need a wiring harness upgrade!!! 

[Jon Schneider]

A final comment...I have read somewhere, that C34s have the highest percentage of engineers and technical types as owners, than any other make or model of boat.   Do not know how one would ever collect or verify this data, but I am always amazed at the technical discussions on the C34 web site and in the MainSheet, and on the comparatively (to other older brands and models) great condition that we see for C34s.    Guess we are biased!

I think this is true for many types of Catalina owners.  It's definitely true of the C36 and even the C42.  Definitely not true of the C350 (although Bill Feldenhauer, owner of Garhauer, owns one and I suppose he qualifies as an ME!)  I've also found this true of Pearson owners, but not so much true of Hunter or Beneteau owners (I've been a list slut for years).  I would say Beneteau owners are more performance- and style-conscious while Hunter owners are happy family cruisers who depend on the kindness of the yardmaster.  C&C owners are a hybrid.  Very into performance sailing.  They know their gear and their technique.  Not sure if they fit the engineering prototype, but they're a sharp group too.  Pearson owners, in addition to skewing toward the engineering type, know more about boat systems and how to fix/improve/modernize them than anyone on the planet.  I'm kind of surprised they haven't banded together to start building Pearsons again.  In fact, a couple of them were going to start a business of completely refitting old Pearsons and modernizing them to be sold as "pre-owned new boats."  You gotta love it.  When I heard about their idea, I said there's a better version already available: it's called a Catalina; 20+ years of continual improvement on a great design basis. 

[Jim Price]

Low time is not necessarily bad.  I have 1991 with 770 hours on meter.  If you think about it, 1 hour per week equal 52 hours per year and on 19 year old boat that would come to only 988 hours.  It really gets down to if that 1 hour per week is few minutes at the time (bad), or one hour at 1200 rpm (OK)or if the one hour a week is at 2000 - 2500 rpm with temp running at 160 (best). 

The higher average rpm per hour used at operating temp (160 range) for 500 hours is a whole lot better than 1,000 hours at putt-putt speed and low temps.  It is not always the number of hours, it is how the engine was used in those hours.   Our boat is a low hours but those hours are quality hours.  Some of the others on this board have thousands of "quality" hours on their engines and their engine will probaly outlast the captain.  I know mine will.

[Stephen Butler]

Ron, agree with you entirely.  We had ALL of our engine and engine related hoses replaced within 72 hours of taking delivery of our 1990.  Also changed fluids and filters.   Have since replaced the rest of the hoses.  We did not clean the diesel tank as the PO had done this.  One hose that escaped our attention, at least for awhile, and which could have led to a catastrophic (explosive) failure, was the drain hose from the LPG locker...almost brittle and certainly would have leaked had there be a need for drainage.  Again, we were fortunate that the PO owned a dealership for a competitive sailboat brand, and knew and followed sound maintenance procedures.

[waterdog]

Thanks for all the feedback.   

The engine does not actually look original, it had all the hoses replaced last year!   The owner did have valves adjusted and a bunch of work done last year addressing all items on identified on the engine survey when he bought it.   I reviewed his hull survey from last year and it was pretty clean to start with and all recommended items were addressed with the exception of installing an automated / remote operated fire extinguisher in the engine compartment (which I'm not sure I would do either). 

I submitted an offer on the boat tonight.   Now we wait... :

Steve Dolling