Radar

[Stephen Butler]

We are sailing from Tampa Bay to Houston this summer and are now seriously considering adding an updated chart plotter with radar.  Any experiences with either the Garmin or RayMarine radar brands?  We hear good and bad things about both, and almost nothing about the other brands.  We are particularly concerned about night sailing and having the ability to avoid both ships and weather fronts.  Any ideas, experience, etc. would be appreciated.   

[tonywright]

There was a good article on radar in the recent Mainsheet - I think it was by a Catalina 40 owner. Bottom line was a strong recommendation for a 4kw scanner over a 2kw.  Supposedly a huge difference in definition. Also a strong case for a gimballed scanner mount.  Both seem to make sense, but sound expensive.

Tony

[Stephen Butler]

Read the article, which was quite good.  We are looking at a gimbaled mount and would prefer a 4 kw/24 inch radome. The challenge is to find a reliable brand that performs well and has a good warranty. We have contacted several dealers/installers, all of which sell, maintain, and install multiple brands, and all of which have a differing recommendation.  Just checking with the association to get some actual user feedback based on experience.  We used to have a subscription to Practical Sailor, but never received the issues on a regular basis, so that source is not available to us. So, any suggestions are sure welcomed.

[Ken Juul]

Decisions, decisions....I went through the same process last fall.  Stand alone radar or a multifunction (chart plotter, radar, etc) display. Monochrome or Color? Nav Sta or Pedestal mount? What size screen?  The questions go on.....

Of the multifunction type, most repair shops I talked with recommended Raymarine over Garmin but it was about a 60/40 split.  Many stand alone radars, Furuno, Northstar, Simrad are a few brands.  Of them I think Furuno wins most of the awards.

I went with a Raymarine C120 display, 2kw dome (great Boat Show price!).  I am replacing a broken stand alone (mid '80s Apelco) radar that is mast mounted.  Haven't used it yet so I can't report on how well it works.

[Stephen Butler]

Thank you Ken...this helps.  Now, I have to find a boat show in June!

[Mike and Joanne Stimmler]

The Strictly Sail Show is comming up in April at San Francisco. It's great! I went two years ago and was hoping I could get there this year but it's not looking too good.

Mike

[George Bean]

Last fall/winter, we installed the E80 system on Freya.  We chose Raymarine because we wanted a fully integrated system and our boat was already equipped with Raymarine instruments and autohelm therefore we could take advantage of the Seatalk bus.  We also have had a very positive experience with Raymarine products and their customer support which added to our bias.  We briefly looked at Funaro and Garmin, but mainly from a comparison of price points and what additional "boxes" we would have to buy in order to be truly integrated.  I also have had the opportunity to opperate an integrated B&G system (no radar) which was excellent, but it is more expensive.

My design parameters were to: Maximize and build off of my existing instrumentation;  Install a chart plotter at the helm;  Add radar for collision avoidance;  Interface with DSC and AIS; And to integrate a PC at the Nav station which could both drive the system and to upload, download, store and process navigational data.  Oh, and fit all this into a C34 footprint and not severely impact sailing performance while keeping power consumption down.  This drove me to the E80, 2KW Radar, Raymarine 125 GPS, ICOM 502 radio, and Miltech SR161 AIS receiver.  If you are looking for a standalone or just upload/download capability, the C80 would do fine.  The 4KW would give you better resolution for weather and landmark identifying, but I felt that the added size, weight and power consumption (not to mention the price) of the 4KW transmitter wasn't worth the incremental increase in the probability of illuminating an intercepting target.  The 2KW antenna dome itself is over 20 inches in diameter and weighs 16 1/2 pounds.  My antenna is also mounted on a custom pole mounted on the transom and not on the mast which also contributed to my decision.

I have been well pleased with the features of my system and even had the opportunity to use it twice so far this year in zero visibility conditions.  The color chart plotter has both day and night color palettes and the ability to vary brightness.  This is a major improvement over older Garmin chart plotters that I've had the opportunity to use. I can page through the various screens as well as over lay the radar on top of the chart.  AIS id's larger ships by name and gives their course and speed on the chart as well as to identify which ones are a crossing threat.  I can use MARPA to do the same thing for targets not using AIS.  These are just a few of the systems features.  The downside was the installation was a bit involved.  For example, we maxed out the wire carrying capacity in both our 1" pedestal guard tubes and footprint for the E80 required a deeper Navpod housing whereas our guard was better sized for the shallower C System display.

[Chris Martinson]

I have had good success with my Raymarine C70.  If I had to do it over again I would have opted for the larger screen; my concern was the size of the pod at the wheel but a few more inches wouldn't have really made a difference.  This will be my third season coming up...it has worked VERY well the past 2 seasons in the busy and often foggy Long Island Sound.  My only disappointment was not with the unit but when I bought it from Defender - they initially told me I couldn't order a longer cable which I needed and ended up paying more for 2nd cable to lengthen it and eneded up with anothr connection instead of just buying a longer cable.....Raymarine tried to help me out but their fix would have taken too long.  When purchasing it - be sure to order the longer cable and you'll need to calibrate the unit.  My radome has come off my mast each winter and removal/reinstallation hasn't been an issue.  My fellow boaters have said they are jealous as to how easy the radome is to take off the mast.....I'd stay away from JRC if you have to remove the radome often.

Plotting the radar on the chartplotter has been great along with the mini MARPA.  I have the 2Kw radome and it works fine for my coastal cruising. 

I wasn't interested in networking making it more complicated....it really takes a LOT of concentration to operate in fog - steer, check for bouys and boats and navigate....it might be nice to have a second unit in the cabin for another person to help out with watching the radar in heavy fog but the E series just hit the market (were untested) and were out of budget range.....my 10 cents

Chris Martinson
More Therapy
Hull 945

[mainesail]

Considering the options I went with Raymarine. Why? Because at the time Raymarine was the only unit that truly integrated all my electronics and still is. While I don't feel Raymarine stuff is quite as bullet proof as Garmin or Furuno the Raymarine units have proven to be very reliable for me. I considered Furuno but the units are very user un-friendly & Garmin's don't have the radar experience yet for me to be comfortable using one..

I sail on the coast of Maine where Pea Soup fog is more the norm than the exception and so far my 2kw Raymarine has performed incredibly well & better than the 4kw that was far lower to the ocean that my 2kw. For a short time I also owned a powerboat with a Raymarine 4kw system and noticed minimal to NO difference in target tracking abilities between the 4kw and the 2kw. Both units can be adjusted almost infinitely! Yes the 4kw has a narrower beam width but if you mount it low does it really matter?

Keep in mind that HEIGHT of the scanner is the MOST important factor even when zoomed in to 1/2 nm in rough seas. On my Catalina 36 I had a Raymarine 2kw on a backstay Questus mount. While the mount was very high quality, and the radar did stay on a plane with the horizon, I lost serious performance due to the height and quickly grew to regret my decision! On my new boat I went back to a mast mount faster than you can say the word performance!

While the fantasy of a self-leveling radar mount sounds great in theory in practice you loose performance unless it's a mast mount self-leveling unit. I use my radar a LOT so I do know the difference and the higher the radar the better the performance. My 2kw on my current boat, which is mast mounted, performs better than my 4kw did on my powerboat which was at about the same height as a back stay radar.

As for where to mount the display one word.. Helm! I suppose if you're never sailing in fog than it could be mounted below and checked periodically but target tracking requires more than a cursory check every few minutes at least in fog! Also one feature I really like is the radar overlay and it's well worth the expense!

My advice go with a 2kw and mast mount it! Don't be fooled by the 4kw up sale!

Here are the radars I've owned and repair history.

Cape Dory 30 Furuno 1.5kw  - Problems = None      Performance = Decent (mast mount)
Catalina 30 - Furuno 2kw     - Problems = None      Performance = Excellent (mast mount)
Catalina 36 - Raymarine 2kw -   Problems = None - Performance = ok (due to height)
Mainship 30 - Raymarine 4kw - Problems = None   - Performance = ok (due to height)
Catalina 310 - Raymarine 2kw - Problems = None -  Performance = Best Yet (mast mount)

Look at the pictures below and decide for yourself which radome can see more distance!

Catalina 36 W/2kw & Questus

Catalina 310 W/Mast Mount 2kw



-Maine Sail
Maine Sails Sailing Galleries
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/61043598

[Joe Kern]

Mainesail - Any concerns or probalems with the mast mount weight since you (like me) have a in mast roller furling main?  I was thinking of going with the stern pole mount and a 2kw just to avoid more weight on the mast and having to make the wire run.

Joe

[mainesail]

Spoke with the factory about the weight and was told it's a non-issue. I was very surprised at how little difference in mast weight there actually is between the furling masts and non furling. Kent, at the factory, told me what it was and I was shocked at how little difference there is. Unfortunately I never wrote down the numbers but it was not a lot when you consider a mast with all the rigging probably weighs in the 550 to 600 pound range anyway.

I opted for better radar performance as I'm not racing but then again most C-34 owners are not the J-Boat racing types either so radar performance should win out..

[Stephen Butler]

Gentlemen...many thanks for all the time and experience given us...we let let the group know what are final purchase decision was and how well it worked this summer.  We continue to believe that the C34 association to one of the best 'features" of the C34!