Hard Starting/ Possible glow plug problem?? M35 Engines & Fuel Pump Wiring

David Sanner · January 04, 2007, 07:43:20 PM

Another option (that I learned from a diesel mechanic) it to remove
injector lines. (This is how the mechanic tested the compression)

Just remember to keep everything clean and cover the fittings
at the injector pump and the injectors. The torque is around
20-25lbs when reconnecting.... make sure the fittings are centered.

Also, I'm assuming it works because some have done it but it must
be an pretty tight fitting getting the forward glow plug out without
hitting the injector pipe by the pump.

Tom Soko · January 05, 2007, 10:06:51 AM

Mike,
If you are careful when removing the intake manifold and not damage the gasket, you should be able to re-use it. Also, because the intake manifold operates under vacuum, and not under pressure, you should not need gasket cement. You want to have a good seal, but the seal is not as critical as one would be if there was an internal pressure and you were afraid of a fluid or gas leaking out. I also re-used my gasket when I took the manifold off to check/clean the glow plugs and add a nipple for the crankcase vent hose.

Mike and Joanne Stimmler · January 05, 2007, 11:27:47 AM

Thanks, everyone for your input. I will definately also be doing the solonoid upgrade after I get the glow plugs figured out.

Mike

Mike and Joanne Stimmler · February 03, 2007, 04:24:59 PM

Well, I was at the boat last weekend and replaced all 3 glow plugs and everything is working great now! I did have to take the intake manifold off but it wasn't any big deal and I was able to reuse the existing gasket. Apparently there are two types of manifolds, one has 3 separate tubes, requiring 3 gaskets(thats the one that I have)and the other one is more of a flat casting still with 3 ports but only using one large gasket. Of course i thought it would be a good idea to have a gasket available just in case so I wouldn't have to wait until my next visit to complete this job so I odered a gasket of the type I thought I had(picked the wrong one)and had to pay for it in advance because it wasn't a stock item so I got stuck buying the wrong gasket that I didn't need anyway! Turns out the other gaskets that I would have needed(if I really needed a gasket) were normal stock items. I'm still very happy with the service I got from the people at A to Z Marine in San Diego. They went out of their way to make sure the part I thought I needed was there when I needed it.
The engine is now starting with a 15 to 20 second glow time but I'm still planning on doing the solenoid upgrade.

Thanks for all of your input,
Mike

Craig Illman · February 03, 2007, 04:59:39 PM

I pulled my manifold yesterday to get at the middle glow plug and the rear gasket split in half. I'd purchased three new ones, just in case. I managed to get everything back together without losing any of the bolts or messing anything else up. (I'm great at planning, but sometimes my execution doesn't measure up).

We attempted to go sailing today, but the wind must have all stayed down in Florida. We motored around a bit instead, saw a few Dahl's porpoise hunting salmon on the current breaks. The Vetus K-75 mounts certainly make a difference in how smooth the boat now cruises. I'm not sure what benefit I'd see from adding a flexible coupling.

on to more projects, I found an Espar D4 on eBay for 75% list. I guess I'll be lazarette diving next weekend. It's nice to be 5'6" when you own a sailboat.

Craig

Bill Sedgwick · February 04, 2007, 09:32:19 AM

Mike,

Since your are in San Diego, come visit the SDCatA meeting at Silver Gate Yacht Club next wednesday at 7 PM or come early for dinner. I'm SGYC Fleet Captain so I can assure you that you'll be welcome. Capt. Al Sorkin will be our speaker. BTW, I have a local source for Kubota parts. Seems that Bobcats have Kubota engines.

Bill

Stu Jackson · February 04, 2007, 12:38:54 PM

Kubota part dealers were included in this thread: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3133.0

Regardless of where you live, you can always order parts and have them delivered by mail. I used the Livermore dealer and had the parts within two days.

Mike and Joanne Stimmler · February 04, 2007, 02:52:21 PM

Bill,
Thanks for the invitation but I live in Phoenix and am usually just in SD for long weekends once or twice a month. Where do you keep your boat? I'm at Marina Village in Mission Bay.

Mike

Bill Sedgwick · February 05, 2007, 08:34:33 PM

Mike & Joanne,

Sorry you can't make the meeting. We're in Shelter Island at Silver Gate Yacht Club. Stop by some time an join us for dinner.

Bill

Michael · June 16, 2007, 11:24:09 PM

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3725.0 is a thread about what appears, near the end (?) of a long and winding road, might be a glow plug problem similar to the one Mike Stimmler dealt with here.

Ron Hill · June 17, 2007, 02:37:54 PM

Michael : With all of the problems that you've had you might just go ahead and replace all 4 of the glow plugs; after you check with Bill Nuttall and confirm that your wiring is OK. The plugs for an M25XP are a Kubota 15951-65512 @ $11.81 each at tractorsmart.com
I suspect that your M35 glow plugs MAY be the same, that's why I said to remove one and go to your local Kubota dealer and confirm it!

Michael · June 18, 2007, 12:46:35 AM

Ron:

Thank you for finding my tail-on posting to this thread of Mike Stimmler.

As indicated on the other thread, our M-35B glow plugs appear to be stamped NGK Y103V. Whether they are the original glow plugs that came with the engine is not clear. At a NGK website, these glow plugs are described as fast activated sheathed glow plugs that should be operated for 15-17 seconds, which corresponds well with Stu Jackson's recommended energizing time. The December, 2001, Universal Parts List (page 44) indicates that the glow plugs for the M-25XPB and M-35B have the same Universal Part # (200595) so I am hoping it is safe to conclude that the Kubota part # (15951-65512) you have for the glow plugs for a M-25XP will also apply to the M-35B.

Your advice to replace the glow plugs seems prescient. The resistance of each plug (terminal to body) tested today in the 1.9-2.2 ohms range. The Universal engine service manual claims that the standard value is 0.9 to 1.2 ohms, and that glow plugs that test outside this range should be replaced. Possibly the Universal manual is referring to a different type of glow plug with different standard values than ours. I will try to check on the NGK site.

We are going to try to get four new plugs from our local Kubota dealer. We'll go armed with your part numbers. Thanks again.

Ron Hill · June 18, 2007, 03:23:17 PM

Michael : Look at my post (above) again. Before you buy new glowplugs; make sure that the glowplugs you have are infact heating when they're mounted in each cylinder!!

Michael · June 19, 2007, 01:21:39 AM

M35 Engines & Fuel Pump Wiring

Ron:

Thank you for the advice to re-read your post.

I was dimly aware that you were advising me to check out the electric circuits first. But today, while the fuel pump, air filter cannister, and some fuel hoses were off and it was easy to get at the glow plugs, I replaced the glow plugs. (NAPA had the NGK Y103V plugs for $13.06 CDN each.) Tomorrow, we will see if glow plugs were (part of) the problem. (I have a sinking feeling that the gremlin has moved on.)

BTW, on the M-35B, a deep 1/2" socket wrench works to remove all the glow plugs except #3 (second from aft plug). The air intake manifold gets in the way of using a socket wrench on glow plug #3, but with the front engine panel and air filter cannister off, you can get a 1/2" ring wrench around #3 from below and behind. Its a bit slow going but do-able.

Today, I also removed the "new" Facet Purolator "Posi-Flow" universal electric fuel lift pump that we installed a couple of weeks ago. It seems to have been dead on purchase or dead soon after. Got another one from NAPA, who are quite willing to take the dead one back, and installed it. It makes happy pump sounds...but only when hotwired to the battery and not (on the one quick occasion I could try it) when the keyswitch was in the "on but not glowplugs" position. The pump manufacturer recommends a 3 to 5 amp automotive type fuse be placed in the fuel pump circuit. The old lift pump didn't have a fuse in the circuit but so far as I can tell seems to have relied on the 10 amp circuit breaker that is attached (on my M-35B anyway) to the starboard light duty terminal on the preheat solenoid. For anyone interested in what goes on inside these plastic-bodied Posi-Flo pumps and how they fail, the postings by Tim C Cook in a discussion thread at http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/1201037611/r/9121070811 seem to have the air of credibility about them.

Which brings me back to the electrics, Ron. I have been putting off emailing Bill Nuttall as you recommended because I have not yet got my tackle in order to describe the nature of Hali's electrical problems (?) in a coherent fashion...and because my testing of the electrical circuits hasn't gone far enough.

As ever, thanks.

John Sheehan · June 19, 2007, 07:56:39 AM

Michael,

On the M-35B engine diagrams and in the actual wiring the fuel pump will not operate with the engine not running unless you have the switch in the glow plug position. Once the engine is running, and you have oil pressure, the fuel pump should operate. When you switch to the glow plug position you should hear the pump clicking.

John