Doyle Utility Power Sail vs. Asymetrical

[Joe Kern]

Anyone sailing with a Doyle Utility Power Sail (or equivalent) instead of a asymetrical spinnaker?  Spent some time at Strictlty Sail - St. Pete today with my Catalina broker and the folks from Doyle.  Idea of a roller furiling multi-use large sail that ius easier to use than a ASM spinnaker (for a cruuising couple) is interesting.

Just curirous if anyone has one or has tried one.

Joe

[Jon Schneider]

I have Doyle's predecessor, a "reacher." (It's about 10 years old.)  It may have a touch more draft than the modern UPS, but close enough to compare.  I love it, but I wish I had a true asym instead.  Don't be fooled by the advertisized effective sailing range: it's not as good as an asym downwind, and you really don't want to get much closer upwind than a broad reach, and even that with more than eight knots is probably less efficient than a large genny.  But it really depends on where you sail.  I can imagine that this would be the sail to have on the western Long Island Sound or the Chesapeake during the summer doldrums, and I suppose having it rather permanently on a foiless-furler would be convenient.  I would say that I use mine (with an ATN sleeve) about 10% or less of my sailing time, so I'm content with its simplicity, but I don't think a true asym would be any more cumbersome and yet would provide much better performance downwind. 

[Wayne]

I actually have two UPS's--one that I just put on on C34 that I sail on San Francisco Bay and another on a smaller boat that I sail on an inland lake.  I'm amazed at how high I can sail with the UPS, and supposedly the lighter the air the higher you can point.  That being said, its still way faster to go on a reach.  Downwind it is not super efficient, but it lets you sail dead down wind while other aspinakers would colapse.  In each case I went with the UPS because of specialized needs--needing a sail to move me upwind in one case; dead down wind in the other (and I didn't want to go to a pole and and a symmetrical spinnaker).   I have a sock on my lake boat which I have had for a year and is really easy and simple.  I went with the furler on my 34, and I'm going to be discussing this with my Doyle loft.  The top of the sail furls really poorly, pops open in 15 kts of breeze, etc.  In short, I'm a really unhappy camper with the furler, and am planning to ask that they switch it for a sock.

[Joe Kern]

Thanks guys.  Not sure what to do yet, but have some time as the summers here are when the winds die.

Joe

[Wayne]

Hey Joe, another thought.  I have a folding prop on my boat, and others on this list have offered the opinion that they would buy a folding prop before investing in a cruising chute.  Having experience with both, I would strongly agree with their opinion.  Not that I think an a-spinnaker is bad (I like mine)--it's just that a folding prop gives a very noticable benefit every time you are under sail, and so more bang for the boating buck.  I just got off the phone with my Doyle rep a few minutes ago, and he pointed out that one of the downsides of the furler is that the top part of the sail will come unwound when trying to go upwind in a good breeze, and said he would usually suggest lowering the sail and either stowing it or lashing it when beating in a very stiff breeze.  That really strikes at the heart of the usefullness of the furler.  I am talking with him about exchanging it (furler) for a sock.  He wants me to give the furler one more try (I will), but I really don't think my low opinion of it is going to improve much.

[Joe Kern]

The Doyle rep I talked to at the boat show was pretty clear that the furler/UPS can't stay up all the time.  The benefit apparentlty comes from the ease of furling for jibing and when single-handing.  He said you could keep it up when out for the day maybe but that it is designed to be taken down when not in use.  Still have to attach it to the spinnaker halyard and the boat and raise it and lower it.  Seems less intimidating than a spinnaker, but then again I have never flown one.  I am sure the folding prop makes a differnce and I might do that someday as well.  Flying a new colorful sail just seems more fun and bang for the fun buck than a new prop.

Joe

[Wayne]

The real issue with not keeping it up all the time comes when the wind kicks up unexpecdedly and the top 1/3 or so of the sail pops open.  You then have the problem of wrestling half a sail full of air down to the deck.  My other boat has a sock, and while it may look a little frumpy sitting on top of the sail it is (in my opinion) more foolproof and controls the top of the sail really well (you can actually do a 'funky reef' on the spinnaker by bringing the sock part way down and using only the bottom half of the sail).  Sock or furler there is no UV protection so the sail has to be removed for storage.
The UPC is what I guess used to be called a genaker.  You will use the halyard to tighten it all the way so that the luff stays straight and it approximates a hanked on sail.  It really acts just like a 160% genoa, only made of lighter cloth so it will take a shape in light air.  My small lake boat has the tack attached behind the forestay.  I need to remove my jib sheets in order to use it, but I tack just like with my genoa (yes, I do mean tack; the sail is behind the forestay).  Not as efficient, but nothing forward strong enough to use for the tack attachment.  On my 34 I'm shackling it to the anchor roller bail (dealer said this arrangement would be plenty strong).  This puts it in front of the forestay, so I can't tack--only jibe.  An outside jibe isn't all that complicated.
The sail is really easy to use; I single hand my lake boat all the time.  And remember, if your are going forward to pull the sock down to douse the sail, or to pull on the reefing line to roll it up in either case you have had to go forward.  And I would again stress that if I need to bring it down when singlehanding I would so much rather have that sail totally under control!

[George Bean]

Wayne, I've been interested in getting either a Code 1 or Zero sail for some time now and am quite interested in hearing more of your experiences.  Do you have the measurements for the sail? (Luff, leach, foot girth, etc)  I'm trying to figure out if it is a Code 1 or not as Doyle uses different nomenclature.  We have friends who sailed a Tartan 34 down on the Baja Ha Ha last year from San Francisco.  That boat had both an A-kite and a Code 1.  The "1" was so convenient that their A-kite was hardly used at all.  Wayne, what is your boat's name and where is it berthed?  Perhaps we can get together sometime as I would love the opportunity to test drive that sail on your boat.

[Wayne]

George, my sail's measurements are:  Luff = 43'6"; leech 38'9"; foot 21'4".  These measurements are from the loft--I haven't measured the sail myself.  The sail sets just like a big, very deep Genoa, except that the clew is pretty high.  And it looks like it has a roach.
I'm berthed in Alameda; boat is named 'Charlotte'.