Rudder redo

[Stephen Butler]

There has been a lot of discussion on cutting and drilling a new rudder.  For what it is worth, I watched our yard take the measurements off the our old rudder, cut the new rudder shaft to length and do the drilling, and it was not at all a complicated procedure.  It was done on a work bench, in the yards shop, in about 15 minutes or less.  Aside from the usual difficulties of working with stainless, it would be a diy project if one already had the tools, or wanted to buy them.  The tough part of the project, or so it appeared to me, is getting the clearance  under the boat, either by digging a hole, or having the yard lift the boat....and simple handling the new rudder, as it is a bit clumbersome.  The application of a barrier coat and bottom paint took longer than the machine work.   Just some observations from our experience.   

[Ted Pounds]

They seemed more than happy to rebuild my rudder.  I think it's about the same ammount of work for them either way.  By the way, you may have to do some "adjustment" to the aft, starboard end of the skeg when you put the rudder on.  This is true for new or rebuild (they use the same mold).   Using a Dremel tool you can do the work with the rudder mounted.  You just need to take off enough to allow full travel of the rudder.  Then seal up with epoxy.   

[rappareems]

Well guys, I am currently working through my local Catalina  broker, he is also a friend, who is doing the leg work on the rudder issue with Catalina and assures me he will talk with Butler on the new v. rebuild issue.  We also have a local machine shop that is right off the harbor and does a lot of the yard work, as regards drilling.  I'll keep you posted

[rappareems]

After much consideration have decided to go with a new rudder, $1544.40.  Local machine shop does a lot of boat work so not concerned with the need to cut the shaft down and drill.  Will tell you how it comes out if and when I get it installed on the boat come Spring.

[Mark G]

Has anyone had or heard of a rudder failing, especially in fresh water?
I talked to my dealer today, one of the oldest in the U.S. They have had rudder de-lamination on old 30s (1970s vintage), a few bulges but never a failure. I may change for the pointing ability on my '91 wing keel, but I am curious about the real danger.
Thanks.

[Stephen Butler]

Cannot comment on possible rudder failure in fresh water, but can relate our experience with salt water.  Our 1990 C34 was knocked over while in dry dock, during Hurricane Wilma, bending the rudder in a 90 degree angle and exposing the internal mild steel grid.  The grid was found to be extremely corroded and in some places, almost entirely "eaten" away.  There is no doubt in our minds that had we not needed to replace the rudder due to the hurricane damage, we would have had a catastrophic rudder failure in the coming year.  Interestingly, there was absolutely no external indication that there was internal problems..no weeping of rust color water, etc.  do not know if this is helpful, but from our experience, when in doubt....rebuild or replace.       

[Mark G]

Thanks, Steve. It's probably $2,000 by the time I ship the rudder and get some yard help with it. Big decision.

[rappareems]

Have taken delivery of my new rudder from Catalina.  $1735.00 with shipping, an additional $120 at the local machine shop for cutting the post and drilling.  Will epoxy and install over next couple of weeks.  Will let you know the upshot of all once it is installed.

Local machine shop didn't think the old one was that bad (used it as a template), they didn't open it up however.  I may grind it out, dry it out try,  fill and fare it some more and sell it on ebay.

[rappareems]

Went to mount the new rudder yesterday and in spite of taking the old one to the machine shop and telling them to measure and be sure and use it as template, they didn't, holes don't line up.  Dropping them both off again today.  Will keep you posted.

[rappareems]

Went to install yesterday and the holes did not line up.  I took them the old rudder to use as a template, after much caution and explanation, they apparently didn't measure.  Just got off the phone with the owner of the shop and he very defensively told me that I should have brought him the quadrant etc. etc.  The upshot is that these rudders are no doubt drilled on board through the quadrant at the factory.  If you go with a new rudder be sure and take all the parts you need for the proper alighment to the machine shop.

[Kyle Ewing]

Don't forget that there's a front and rear quadrant and the holes may be different for each.  Note how the quadrant is positioned in the boat before taking it to the machine shop.

[Jeff Kaplan]

mark, if you brought the old rudder to the machine shop for them to measure to length and position holes, and they didn't, doesn't say much for them. that was the whole reason to bring the old one. when i got my new rudder last season, i had to call several machine shops before i found one that would do the job. all the senior machinest asked me was how critical the hole alignments were, and i said very critical. no problem. most machinests are very proud of the work they can do and love to show off. as far as the quad., there is one thru bolt, and the hole must be properly aligned. also the hole for the emerg. rudder cap must be drilled straight. good luck...jeff

[rappareems]

Took the quadrant to the machine shop.  They filled the old holes on the quadrant and then drilled to match the rudder.  We are installed and in the water.  I'll tell you if I think it affects performance. 

Thanks for all the input, too bad the machine shop chose to ignore my admonitions.  Apparently they called the dealer that I worked through and yelled at him  because I chided them for not following the templet of the old rudder.  Soviet era machine shop!

[steve stoneback]

Mark,  What did they fill the holes with?  Also, I am curious how your new rudder preforms.  I am considering a new rudder as one of my projects for next year.
Steve

[George Pyrpiris]

Just replaced my rudder with new one this past March while on the hard for bottom job.  The rudder is about 7-8" longer and more round at bottom leading edge.  I do feel I have more control with new rudder, more resposive and less weather helm.  If you do go for new rudder make sure you barrier coat the virgin gelcoat with interprotect 2000 (min. 2-3 coats) before the bottom paint.  Not a bad idea of having a shop drill the holes.  Bring the old rudder for reference.  I drilled the holes myself and had trouble with the steering quadrant through bolt alignment.  My drilling wasn't perfect and there is not much room for play.  Delivered in less than 10 days!!!!!!!
Keep in mind that a rudder is the secomd most important part of your boat apart from hull integrity.
Good luck
George