fuel lift pump

[Jack Hutteball]

While changing oil and furl filters yesterday I noticed that the fuel pump sometimes was clicking and sometimes not.  The engine always started and ran (3/4 tank of fuel) even after changing the fuel filter with no clicking sound from the pump.  From a search on the site it seems that the pump could be sticking, (hit with a screwdriver per Ron), bad ground, corroded fuse, or simply failed (the boat is now 5 years old, but there is only 300 hours on the engine and fuel pump.  I will check the above before replacing.

I read Stu's article with pictures about replacing the pump and noted the NAPA part numbers for replacement and the $36 cost.  My question is that the pictures don't look anything like my fuel pump.  Mine is a square metal box with fuel line connections on top and bottom with two wires comming out for power.  One bolts directly to the engine bracket and the other connects to the wiring harness.  I don't see any sign of a fuse, but that could be down the line somewhere.  Is the NAPA 610-1051 pump the correct one for my M35B engine?  Has anyone out there replaced a fuel pump on their M35B engine that looks like mine?

[Jack Hutteball]

As a further note, I checked and found that there is about 11.5 volts to and through the pump with the key switch on with the pump not making any clicking sound.  Reading the owners manual it says that the pump is activated by the the panel "key/glow plug" switch.

When the key switch is turned on, the low pressure beeper sounds but no clicking from the fuel pump.  As the key is further depressed to turn on the glow plugs, the beeper stops and the fuel pump ticks away.  Release the key, pump stops and beeper sounds.  Is this normal operation on the M35B?

Jack

[Ron Hill]

Jack : I don't believe that the fuel pump for the M25 and M25 XP are the same fuel (lift pump) as you have on the M35B engine!!  The wiring is probably NOT the same.  BTW, a thump with a screwdriver only works with a mechanical pump - not an electronic pump which I think yours probably is!!

I think you need to talk to a Universal/Westerbeke dealer.  As I recall some of your fuel pump wiring may also be interconnected to the oil pressure alarm??
Look at your wiring diagram in the back of your owners manual for the engine.  Sorry I can't be of more help.   

[Jack Hutteball]

Thanks Ron. The fuel pump circuit is definately connected to the oil pressure alarm as it stopped beeping when I disconnected the pump.  I'm beginning to think it is operating normally, but I will check with Universal.

Jack

[captran]

I have a 1997.  I left the manuals aboard and dont recall if its the 35 a or 35 B.  It had the stock facet cylinder type pump which always worked fine.  It only clicks with the key is turned all the way to the glow plug position AND if you open up the return valve, or as it's delievering fuel.  The best way to test it is open the return valve and have someone turn and hold the key (never longer than 30 seconds at a time).  you should hear the rapid clicking.  This year when I changed out the filters it started clicking, but then stopped, started and stopped.  I gave a sharp tap to the pump and it clicked a few times but then stopped.  Got enough pressure to bleed the system but really felt the pump was going out, and even though the system is gravity fed, didn't want to start a summers cruise without a working pump.  Several years ago I bought a spare when I was headed to the Exumas, so now that is installed.  It is the "Napa 610-1074 High Performance gold flo".  There is a cheaper model that works but I wanted an exact replacement to be sure the fittings and hoses would match up.  I plan on taking apart the old one to see what's inside.  I have heard there is a screen in this model that can get mucked up so if I can get this one working again it will be my back up.  Hope that helps.

[Fred Jackson]

Jack,

I have a C36 with the M35B.  ...don't know the part number for the lift pump.  However, right there by the lift pump is a resettable circuit breaker.  I can't recall for sure whether that breaker is for the lift pump, but if it is, did you try resetting it?

Fred J.
Amante  C36 #2209

[Stu Jackson]

The post I made that Jack referred to in his first post above is Flix of Napa Fuel pump:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2515.0

I think Ron answered Jack's original question about the pump being different, and yours may be, too.  The oder boats had the Facet metal pumps as discussed in the Flix posts and other "Napa" search references.  The new one is plastic.  Newer M35abcxyz model engines may have had something different installed as OEM.  The trick is to get a pump that moves the stated amount to maintain fuel flow past the siphoning point which is about half a tank of fuel.  It also helps when bleeding the system after a fuel filter change, see Ken Heyman's excellent recent posts (try http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2884.msg15270#msg15270, the search for Heyman, pull up any one of his posts, click on his name, scroll down to "view his recent posts" and review his contributions on bleeding).

[Jack Hutteball]

Randy,
Thanks for the info on you your boat, which I notice is on the hard in the marina.  You are missing some good sailing!  I was able to show my guests what the boat looks like below the waterline this weekend.  Your pump is definitely different than mine, but seems to work like mine.  Only clicks when the key is turned to the glow plug position, then stops after a while.  I have not contacted Universal to see if this is normal.  Have had no trouble ever starting the engine with this condition however.

Fred,
According to the wiring diagram there is a circuit breaker in the fuel pump circuit.  I assume that the one by the lift pump is it, but I have not scraped the silver paint off the wires to verify the colors shown in the wiring diagram.  I did check the breaker, which is simply a button and it did not seem to need resetting.  Does your pump click continuously with the key on, or just when in the glow plug position?  Is it intermittent in either position?  I assume your pump is a square metal box like mine, correct?

[Fred Jackson]

Jack,

Yeah, mine's a metal box.  I only hear the clicking while activating the glow plugs, but that may be because after starting the engine, the engine noise drowns out the clicking sound.  When it clicks, it's continuous, although I've never run my glow plugs for more than 5 or six seconds, so I can only vouch for a continuous 5 or 6 seconds.

Fred J.
C36 #2209    (2005 model)

[Ron Hill]

Guys : Something you may want to check!  Fred's post reminded me that there have been C34's that I know of that have had the wire at the key switch attached to the WRONG pole (at the factory)!!  There's a "continuous" ON pole and a spring loaded "intermittent" ON pole.  The lift pump should be running all of the time that the key is ON for the M25 series engines.  M35 series??

On the M25 series engines it easy to check.  Just touch the fuel pump while the engine is running, you can feel to pulsing.  Suspect it's the same for the M35 series.   

[John Sheehan]

On our 2003 34 MK II the fuel pump only goes on when the glow plug is activated or there is oil pressure.  I does not go on when the key is turned to the on position and the engine is not running or with no oil pressure.  I chased this out earlier this year and this  is the way it shows on the schematic also.  When I need to run the fuel pump, as when filling fuel filters, I just jumper over to the fuel pump positive line from the starter solenoid positive post.

[Jack Hutteball]

John, I missed that while looking at the schematic.  I will check to see if the pump is running once the engine is running per Ron's suggestion.  Seems to make sence though.
Jack