New Sails

[GRAEME JACKSON]

Hi all, we are in Australia and looking to put new sails on our C34 Mk1 1986
Getting a lot of "expert" opinion on what sails i should get made and what material to use
Unfortunately there are no other fin keel Mk 1 c34S here and the sail makers are trying to compair our boat with other brands sold here
there are plenty of wing keel Mk 2S here,would these sail shapes be OK
or maybe a sail loft in the USA that some one could recommend to us
We do very little "club" racing and mostly cruising but would like to point better and not have so much weather helm
have a 150% self furling headsail and the original main (1986)
what are your thoughts
Graeme

[Stu Jackson]

Hi Graeme

1.  Catalina makes sails and advertise in Mainsheet magazine.  They'd get the right fit.

2.  Shipping could cost more than buying locally.

3.  Most conclusions I have read about this issue. in this and other sailing forums, is that the amount of disappointment in new sails is directly proportional to the distance between the boat owner and the sail maker.

4.  The wing vs fin keels shouldn't affect your sail construction decisions, it's more the way you plan to use the boat and the type of winds you plan to sail in.

5.  We, too, have an original (not Catalina) 1986 main, and I understand about your desire to improve your "pointing" ability.  From my experience, flatter is better for pointing, but, if you're planning on doing any amount of light air sailing, you get into a foot shelf and all the other bells and whistles.  Since we don't know what kind of sail controls you have or plan to install, (cunningham, flattening reef, adjustable outhaul, etc.) it would be premature to get into that level of detail.

6.  Any good sail maker in your local area should have no trouble measuring your boat for a new mainsail.  If they do, find another sail maker! 

7.  Weather helm is sometimes the result of a deep draft or baggy mainsail, but mostly from not reefing the main early enough or having too big a jib up.  My personal feeling is that maybe only 20% of weather helm complaints have to do with the bagginess of a mainsail - just my opinion.

[Jeff Kaplan]

graeme, i purchased #219,1986, 2 summers ago. boat had origional main but in 2001 the po replaced the head sail with a north 135% genny and a shaffer roller furling. what a treat. i had a new main sail made by doyle sailmakers, beginning of last season.  if you have one down there, they have all the specs. my boat is a tall rig and the sailmaker knew just what to do. i too am a cruiser, although i race everybody next to me,only,  they don't know it. they made the sail with 2 full battens and 2 smaller ones. also had 2 sets of reefing points put in. the sail cost me about $2100-. worth every cent. i can point higher, attain excellent speed. i have the origional boom vang, not solid, and it works fine. any good sail maker can duplicate the old sail, with todays technology put in. nothing like a new sail to bring the old gal back to life. good luck...jeff kaplan

[jpaulroberts]

Graeme,
I bought my 1987 Mk 1 (#296) two years ago with original sails. The main was blown out and pretty useless. I had Doyle on City Island make me a full battoned main and I love it. Mine is also a tall rig. I still have the %150 headsail that came with the boat and it seems fine. I did upgrade the Hood furling gear and it works just fine for my needs. Any good sail maker can make you a sail but I agree that Catalina and Doyle know what they're doing. I do not race, but hitting 8 knts every now and then is a thrill and making a good point means better cruising all around of course. Good luck down there. Good to see one of "our" boats way down under. Jerry

[GRAEME JACKSON]

Thanks for your input
my main is starting to go along the stitched seams , sail maker said it had been left uncovered to long in the weather
it lhas been re stitched but has seen better days and not worth putting a flattener in it
will use for a spare
a new main looks like to way to go
with all the new sail shapes about (larger roach) is this a good idea or stick to original shape and size ?

my headsail is a hood 150% dacron 2 years old sailing in light air it seams too heavy to use
noticed a lot on web site that peolple mainly have a 110-130 size
any indication why this is

looking at a doyle ups sail for light air conditions (up to 10 knots)
not a "pushed" item from Doyle in Australia
suggested a asymmetrical spinnaker
but liked the idea of the pointing ability of the ups sail
has any body tried one of these ?

[George Bean]

A couple of thoughts to consider:  Chances are that your original factory main is gone.  Mainsails tend to loose their shape in the belly, making it hard to control draft and they also go bad in the leach.  The full batten design will mask these symptoms for years and if you're not performance oriented, the main will last decades (with a lot of aggressive trimming).  Using the Cunningham and "flattening reef" will reduce belly for the lower half of the sail.  Tightening the leech cord to point of developing a "hook" in the trailing edge will control a loose leach.  You can get better pointing off of the main by "upping" the traveler to the windward side so the boom is always at (or above) centerline.  The trade-off is weather helm.  You might also want to check to see if your rig is in tune. Being based in San Francisco, I haven't had much experience in trimming 150 Genoas, but for me, they tend to have a wider tacking angle than a 130.  Try pulling the fairleads way back on their track.  The classic way to get a genoa to point better is to use Barber Haulers to pull the loaded genoa sheet closer to centerline.  This never worked well for me on the Catalina unfortunately.  Incidentally, the reason why 110s and 130s are so popular is the 110 is standard with the boat and the 130 is the current class standard for Northern California.  Catalina now sells the 135 as their "standard" genoa along with the 110.  Many people in the U.S. use the 150 as it covers the lower wind ranges quite nicely.

Sail Materials:  Although PHRF will allow for extended roaches these days, I'm not in favor of them.  They tend to hang up on the backstay when tacking close hauled, especially in light winds.  It can be very frustrating when you have to constantly fight this.  Shelfs or loose footed mains will give you much better belly control with using only halyard and outhaul tension.  Shelfs or loose footed usually have a full batten on top followed by partial battens.  Both will accommodate a Dutchman flaking system.  Good quality high modulus/high thread count Dacron is hard to beat and will last a long time.  The only time you need to think about going to arimids like Kevlar is if you are really performance oriented and want to reduce weight aloft and have very low, even stretch properties.  I personally prefer the Polyester laminate as it fits in right in the middle.

Your 150 might be sagging because it might be made out a heavier weight Dacron cloth.  Sail makers do this in order to increase the wind range of the sail.  The 150 is really a light air only, specialty sail and should be made out of the lightest materials possible (this is where Kevlar comes in).  Something you might try is going to a pair of lighter genoa sheets.  Heavy sheets really cause big genoas to sag when beam reaching or running in light air.  Asymmetrics have a fairly narrow wind angle and never point better than 60 degrees AWA. They don't point well because you can't pull tight tension on the luff and the sail doesn't trim close to the boat.  I get my best VMG at 90-135 degrees.

George Bean
s/v Freya  #1476