First time winterizing for a new owner

[RaymondP]

Just acquired a 1986 Catalina 34 Mk 1 tall rig.  Apart from the maiden voyage to bring her home, my first task is to winterize.  Somewhat daunting given the importance of doing it right.  I have read the very good winterizing guide on this forum plus reviewing multiple posts and videos on line from others but inevitably few basic questions remain....

Some background, the boat is located is SE Michigan and I am used to working on cars, so hope to climb the steep leaning curve quickly.

My engine is the M25 3-cylinder diesel (21 hp).  Runs great so far.  I understand it has an open and closed cooling system.  In which system is the thermostat located?  Reason I ask is I plan on flushing the open system with pink antifreeze and want to be sure to clear all remaining water.  Assume their is no thermostat to block the flow.  I have NOT found reference to running the engine to a warmed (t.stat open) state.  My conclusion is that the T. stat is in the closed loop where the green engine coolant resides.  Please confirm/advise.

Correct engine oil - recommendations.  This is very important on a modern car so I tend to overthink it.  Was thinking Rotella (Shell) T6 full synthetic 5W-40.

Just read on this forum that the trans oil should also be addressed - type, weight, how?

Think I am clear on the fuel additives and and to make every effort to displace any water from all pipes, drains and tanks (aside from fuel tank) by adding pink antifreeze to each the three systems--sanitary, potable.  I believe there are two (fresh water?) tanks - aft  and to port. (Sanitary is on the starboard side.)  Do they both hold/carry fresh water, or is one topped up with lake/sea water?

Thank you in advance for your advice and time.

[Ron Hill]

Ray : You are correct that the "closed system" has the thermostat. 
What I do is purchase 1 gallon of the lowest temp. non toxic engine antifreeze (-100F) (pink is for the potable fresh water system) stick the raw water intake hose into the gallon jug and run the engine.  That should take care of the raw water system.  In addition I remove the Zn anode from the heat exchanger and let the anti freeze drain out.  I also fill the transmission to the top for winter and then suck it all out in the spring and add new T oil to the "ring" on the dipstick in the spring.

You said that the engine oil Rotella T6 full synthetic 5W-40. I caution you - that I hope that the engine has been on a synthetic oil diet??  There also is a 5W40 Mobile synthetic that I use.

Good luck with you winterizing (don't forget the scuppers and manual bilge pump!!)

Go in to our WiKi and look at Winterization. A lot of information on our C34 site!

A few thoughts

[Jim Fitch]

Hi Raymond -

I use the pink stuff to flush the raw water cooling system for the winter.  If you use real antifreeze like Ron suggests please be careful and you'll have to find someway to catch and dispose of that toxic stuff.  It tastes sweet to dogs and it will kill them.  I assume all the animals would drink it.  The pink stuff is non toxic.

Have fun with the new boat.  Mine's still in the water South of Boston and we actually took her out Saturday.

Jim

[KWKloeber]

Raymond

On the wiki site, under the "Manuals" page is the ops manual for the engine.  4-5? Yrs back I had updated and corrected the diagram that shows the seawater and freshwater flow paths. To get to Manuals you need to do a search on the wiki - for MANY years the link to that page has been incorrect and I have no way to fix it; the higher-ups need to do that.

The flow diagram is also here:
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/wiki/9626

Controversy abounds whether synthetic or good old dino is better for the kubota diesel.  My feeling is, on a new engine it's ok to use syn for its life, but better to stick with what was historically used for an old engine.  There are those who disagree.  There is one thing for sure, the benefit of syn is cost due to extreme long life - and that is wasted money when we change oil annually rather than on an auto by mileage.
Many diesel oils are formulated for over the road heavy truck needs and not our needs. I'll stick with T5. (search and you'll find posts with different opinions on engine oil.  Just follow the weight recommended by the manual and climate.

There's my thoughts/tips on draining and filling the tranny.   Just ATF is what to use in our trannys.
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/wiki/11617

If I were to use pink stuff (I don't) I'd get as much water out of the system as possible to keep from diluting it and putting money out onto the ground.
Rodd Collins has good info on pink stuff.  Bookmark his as a go-to resource!!

https://marinehowto.com/
https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

The freshwater tanks are fresh water tanks (not discounting that a PO might have done something stupid...!)

[AndyBC]

Congrats on the boat purchase!  It's an exciting time!  How long was the maiden voyage?  Solo?

RE winterizing:
-remember to use the non-toxic antifreeze especially in your potable water tanks
-disconnect all the batteries
-some individuals remove the raw water impeller, otherwise it could take a set over the winter
-some individuals loosen the alternator belt.  I personally don't.
-I leave all the seacocks open while on the hard
-laying all cushions on their side, as opposed to flat down, can help reduce condensation on them
-depending on where you are, a shrink wrap/cover would be ideal

[Jim Hardesty]

Raymond,
Most of the winterizing has already been discussed.  I would mention, before pouring in the antifreeze bypass the water heater and drain it as much as possible.  My winterization is use the -100 in the mechanical systems, engine raw water and air conditioning -50, the pink stuff, in potable water and head.  Drain transmission and overfill with a fresh quart of ATF, in the spring drain down to correct level.  Don't forget to check that the engine antifreeze is the correct level and right strength.
I'm with Ken, don't see any advantage to using synthetic oil in our Kobata engines.  They were designed to use petroleum oil.  But then if the engine has been run with synthetic I might keep using it.
Jim 

[KWKloeber]

Someone, please, explain to me - if best practice is followed when laying up on the hard for the off season, where seawater can accumulate and freeze in an m-25 or other Universal engine (m-35, 35A, 35B, XP, XPB)????

[Ron Hill]

Guys : "if best practice is followed" there shouldn't be ANY untreated sea or fresh water to freeze!!

My thought

[kh3412]

Back to winterizing.
You may want to put some antifreeze in the false bilges in the back part of the hull.
Cracked my hull in between the strut and rudder.
Easiest way was just pour some antifreeze down past the propane locker.
The bilge area is below the rear water tank.
I filled and glassed over the areas on my boat.

[KWKloeber]

Guys : "if best practice is followed" there shouldn't be ANY untreated sea or fresh water to freeze!!

My thought

If best practice is followed there is nowhere water accumulates.  NO water to freeze and no pink stuff needed. Possibly folks don't know what's best practice to lay up the engine!

[RaymondP]

Thanks everyone for the great input and feedback.  Completed the first few steps yesterday.  Ran the engine and flushed antifreeze through, displacing the water. Hardest part was removing the hose.  Fresh water tank now has pink. Determined I only have one fresh water tank on the starboard side. Ran pump and opened taps.  Hot and cold now runs pink in the kitchen basin, but nothing in the bathroom basin/shower.  Stop cock must be closed(?).  Have to do a stop cock hunt for all drain points on next visit.

Somewhat worrisome, I had about 1 1/2" of clear water in the bilge.  Pumped it out and completely dried with a towel.  Will see if water accumulates again, but I recognize the boat is NOT shrink wrapped yet.

Also added distilled water to the two marine batteries.  They are now on a solar charger that seems to be doing its job.  Will see if full voltage returns after the cold start on the hard for the engine flush.

Thanks again everyone.  No doubt I will have other questions for later.

[KWKloeber]

Raymond

Not having the boat/engine long enough you might not have known/realized the "best practice" when laying up is to:

1. Pull the seawater pump impeller and reinstall (replace if necessary) in spring. While there check hose clamps and for evidence of pump seal failure.
2. Pull the end caps (at least the inlet side) of the heat exchanger to check for gunk against the small tubes, and pull/inspect (replace if necessary) the anode. While there check the forgotten hose (Hx to exhaust manifold) and all clamps.
3. Exercise the muffler petcock (replace if rusted shut) and same for the one on the TStat housing.  While there check the hump hose and all clamps.

The dirty little FACT that mechanics who get big bucks to winterize don't want us to know, is there are (only) three places in the m-25/xpa/xpb/35/35a/35b where seawater can accumulate and freeze:

1) The seawater pump.
2) The heat exchanger.
3) The muffler.

Therefore if owners:
- Follow 1,2,3, there's NO water left in the seawater cooling system.
- Run pink stuff before 1,2,3, then they simply drain out what they paid to put in.
- Don't follow good practice and just run pink stuff, they're lazy and looking for trouble down the road.

Anyone who disputes that, I will be happy to discuss winterizing my m-25 (and others) since 1993, and and have NEVER run pink stuff through the raw water system (half that period laying up over BrrrrrUFFALO sub zero winters.)

[Ron Hill]

Guys : I believe that most of us agree the the pink stuff is NOT for the engine winterization - it's for the other water systems- water heater, head, holding tank and water tanks.

I use the pink stuff but then DRAIN the water heater, the water tanks and the head.  The pink stuff is in there for any water (just in case) that it can't come out!!!

A few thoughts

[Ted Pounds]

I would NOT let that highly toxic green stuff anywhere near my potable water....
And if you're winterizing the engine with it and letting dump on the ground you're poisoning the environment and violating federal law.

[KWKloeber]

I would NOT let that highly toxic green stuff anywhere near my potable water....
And if you're winterizing the engine with it and letting dump on the ground you're poisoning the environment and violating federal law.

Absolutely!

And if green stuff is left anywhere in the seawater system (e.g., muffler) or drained and left in the bilge -- then into the waterway it goes on the first run or bilge dump.

Using ANY antifreeze on the seawater side -- PER the MANUAL itself  -- is NOT necessary.
https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,11509.msg92909.html#msg92909
"To drain sea water system, disconnect hose end at sea water pump that comes from heat
exchanger. Lower free end of hose to a point approximately level with the front engine mount. This will allow the sea water to drain from heat exchanger and hoses.  Loosen the 4 or 6 screws on the sea water pump cover plate. Tap the plate lightly to loosen it, this will allow pump to drain. After pump has drained, apply a light coat of lubrication to protect pump and impeller during storage and replace cover.  Drain exhaust muffler and system separately."

Folks have said that they use the "simple" method of pumping AF (pink or otherwise) thru -- it "ONLY" tasks a half day to winterize (had been said.) Why waste the time, and AF (which you dump onto the ground then drain out of the seawater system after pumping it in?  Not logical common sense.