Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: britinusa on January 12, 2018, 03:05:21 PM

Title: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 12, 2018, 03:05:21 PM
I'm about to replace all of the Water Lines in the galley. Just replaced the Water faucet but the old hose & barb joints are failing, just touching them leads to another leak.

I have everything I need except a new water filter.

The current water filter might be original, the top is corroded and looks very fragile. So I need to replace that too.

I have two of these filters on board, one is for the Engine Raw Water strainer and the other for the Air Conditioner raw water supply. I deliberately got matching strainers to reduce the number of spares I need carry and with the concept of 'Right now the engine is more important than the AC, so swap out the strainers'

So, I'm thinking of getting a 3rd of the same type. They are $47.99 + Tax but even West Marine is out of stock.

Searching around I found one that matches the other two on board, and an alternative.

The Strainer is $47.99 Plus tax, the Undersink Water filter is $47.99 at the local hardware store.

Other than the Whirlpool filter requiring more space, any downside to using it v the Raritan strainer?

The 1st image is a Raritan Water Strainer

2nd is Whirlpool Undersink Water Filter

3rd is our current water strainer - I know, YUK!

Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: KWKloeber on January 12, 2018, 03:56:23 PM
Paul

I dont get why we need a strainer on the freshwater. I have one that attaches to the pump inlet and it has never picked anything up in 20+ years.

I did put an activated carbon filter inline (big box, could be a whirlpool) and its worked out well.  I used the whole house rather than under sink type because I didnt want to step down to 3/8 fittings.

If you want the Raritan I could check after the weekend to see if my dist has one in stock.

Cheers
K
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Mike and Joanne Stimmler on January 13, 2018, 10:59:13 AM

I bought a whole house water filter at Home Depot and adapted it to connect to my hose from the dock. It worked out pretty well.

Mike
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: John Langford on January 13, 2018, 11:32:33 AM
I installed a 6 activated charcoal filter in the cold water line feeding the the galley faucet. There is no point getting a larger one since you should replace the filter every year and you cant possibly exceed its capacity in gallons processed in one year even if you do a lot of boating.. Manufacturers like Penta and GAC sell small filters and you can get quick connect fittings to make the replacement easy.
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Ron Hill on January 13, 2018, 01:13:34 PM
Paul : Your raw water and fresh water strainers that Catalina Factory installed are HYPRO Crop. strainers'  New Brighton MN [612 633-9300]. 
You strainers have course SS mesh "filters" inside the screw-on bowl.  I also found they have a fine mesh screen which I ordered and installed in the fresh water line.  If you don't filter the water when you fill your tank (well vrs city water) - you need a filter/strainer to protect the pump.

Wrote a more extensive article in the Mainsheet Tech notes on this very topic.  Give them a call and find a local dealer.  I purchased extra strainers and gaskets

A few thoughts
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 16, 2018, 02:27:03 PM
I ended up installing a $37 Whirlpool undersink carbon filter in line from the new tank selector ball valves.

New setup is sweet. Although we are perhaps overboard on filters.

New system:

Really pleased with the new plumbing arrangement.

Paul
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Noah on January 16, 2018, 03:33:09 PM
Paul- can you please post some pics of your new set-up?
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Ron Hill on January 18, 2018, 02:56:11 PM
Guys : If you are interested you can go to Lowe's and get a filter that fits on the faucet.  It's charcoal and has a lever for filter or unfiltered water.

A thouht
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Jon W on January 18, 2018, 05:18:58 PM
There is a Brita filter that attaches to the faucet from Home Depot as well.
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: scgunner on January 20, 2018, 08:27:58 AM
     I don't see the point of a filter for the fresh water tank, with the advent of bottled water does anybody drink from the tap anymore? I make coffee and water the dog with water from the ice chest. The only thing we really use the tank water for is washing dishes and taking showers.
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 21, 2018, 01:07:44 AM
Just to clarify: The original intent was to re-plumb the fresh water hoses beneath the galley sink, old, grotty, corroded, and a strainer that was way past it's best by date.

The cost of a new 'strainer' was about the same as a filter unit with valve (not that I could ever see using the valve) and I questioned if anyone knew of a downside to using the filter.

My greatest concern was that the filter might prevent the fresh water pump from priming. It primes within a few seconds even though the selected tank was less than 1/2 full.

I should be able to get some pics today, the boat is on the hard for a bottom paint and a few WIIT projects.

Paul
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: DaveBMusik on January 21, 2018, 10:55:08 AM
House filters are typically plumbed after the pump.
I think I would do the same and not have to worry about the filter intake being higher than the water level.
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 23, 2018, 07:15:31 PM
As described, the new filter that is inline from the Tank Selector valves to the Fresh Water pump primes really quickly and the flow rate is actually enhanced, but that may be due to the new plumbing and T's

Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 23, 2018, 07:19:37 PM
The installation
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 23, 2018, 07:21:31 PM
The manifold
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 23, 2018, 07:23:21 PM
And the new Faucets

Link to my blog article: http://www.sailingeximius.com/2018/01/whole-boat-filter.html (http://www.sailingeximius.com/2018/01/whole-boat-filter.html)
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Jon W on January 23, 2018, 10:52:00 PM
Hi Paul, nice work. What kind of doors do you have for the shelves/storage behind the settee in the background?
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 24, 2018, 04:49:41 AM
The PO installed them as part of his prep to take the boat on a Bermuda race.

There's a piece of stained ply that covers the entire shelving behind the chain plate rods, from the fwd bulkhead to the edge of the aft end of the shelving

There are 3 doors on each side, could be teak.

They make great storage spaces and, as per their intent, they would keep stuff in if the boat ever broached.

They do make the cabin appear smaller compared to other c34's I've seen, but I plan on recovering/replacing the cushions with a lighter material.

Paul
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Jon W on January 24, 2018, 07:56:42 AM
Any chance you could post a couple pictures with doors open and closed?
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 24, 2018, 03:13:25 PM
Any chance you could post a couple pictures with doors open and closed?

There's no Laundry in there  8)

Will take pic tomorrow.

Paul
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 28, 2018, 05:51:33 AM
Pics of 'Cupboards' (Port Side, Aftmost door.)
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Jon W on January 28, 2018, 09:06:26 AM
My acrylic doors and guides were missing when I bought the boat so have been considering replacing with something similar to yours. Very nice and thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on January 28, 2018, 02:41:00 PM
The only downside is that they make the boat darker (but as we never had the previous layout, not sure of if there's a difference)


We're going to replace the cabin cushions (and v-berth / aft berth) and they will be much covered in much brighter material.

Paul
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on February 04, 2018, 12:10:52 AM
Back to the Filter Subject.

Here's the schematic of the Fresh water plumbing system
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on February 04, 2018, 12:14:22 AM
Better pic?
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Fred Koehlmann on February 04, 2018, 10:46:42 AM
Hi Paul,

Nice diagram. Quick question... how much power does the UV filter/light draw? Is it on all the time or only when the water is flowing? I'm curious how this is going to affect the house bank and if there was an issue of going from 120v to 12v, or did they have a DC option?

Thanks, Fred.
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: KWKloeber on February 04, 2018, 02:08:47 PM
Paul

Just for documentation purposes, there is a check valve on the supply to the water heater, to prevent hot water from back-feeding to pump and into the cold water side of the system. 

I've posted it before -- but as a reminder -- the CV MUST be pressure rated and CANNOT be replaced by the current plastic model Shurflo 340-001 used on water systems (the old Shurflo plastic CVs that CTY used were ok.)

ken
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Jon W on February 04, 2018, 04:40:32 PM
Ken, When replacing the old one what brand and part number check valve should be used?
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: KWKloeber on February 04, 2018, 05:10:32 PM
Ken, When replacing the old one what brand and part number check valve should be used?

The old standby marine (read: expensive) one is the Jabsco 34344-0000

(https://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/images/catalog/thumb/213595.jpg)

I used a SharkBite check valve (Home Depot online.)  I chose the 3/4" model to lessen pressure loss across it.  It's ridiculous the number of spots 1/2" water flow gets reduced to about 3/8" flow using so-called "1/2-inch" fittings.

(https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/7c544808-788f-45ef-b86d-7241064ebb55/svn/sharkbite-check-valves-u2016-0000lfa-64_145.jpg)

k
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Jon W on February 04, 2018, 06:31:53 PM
The 1/2 Shurflo inline check valve is rated up to 100 psi same as the Jabsco. Why not use it?
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: KWKloeber on February 04, 2018, 07:42:14 PM
email from ShurFlo:"

...water heaters always have thermal expansion our check valve is not design to withstand the water heaters thermal expansion. The check valve will break in half I have seen it.  The old check valve with the bolts could handle more back pressure. The new one is sonic welded and can only take max 125psi max. Not good for water heaters they will develop a lot more than 125psi thermal expansion.  -- Shurflo Customer Service

The Jabsco product info says it's meant for marine and RV water heaters.


-ken
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Jon W on February 04, 2018, 08:00:53 PM
Looks like Shurflo should update their documentation to say that. Im curious now what the cracking pressure of the relief valve is. I will look when I get to the boat in the morning. Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: britinusa on February 05, 2018, 03:00:26 PM
Thanks for spotting the omission of the check valve. It's installed about half way between the Tank and the 'manifold'

Pic updated.

Regarding the thermal expansion pressure.

Found this on the web:
Quote
As a point of reference, in a residential hydronic heating boiler we actually observe an internal water pressure rise from 12 psi cold up to 28 psi hot as the boiler temperature increases from perhaps 60 F up to 180 F.

I also found a reference that water expands approximately 4% before boiling (~75F - 211F)
Tank is about 6 gallons(?) > 4% = 0.24 gallons, quite a bit but we never heat the water above 160F due to the engine thermostat.

and residential systems have used copper piping for years (now changing to plastic), but we use plastic/vinyl and they expand quite a bit.

So with about 12' of hose from the tank to the bathroom faucet, and a couple more to the Galley faucet, that's a lot of hose expansion.

Just sayin.

 :?

Paul
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: KWKloeber on February 05, 2018, 08:34:51 PM
Looks like Shurflo should update their documentation to say that. Im curious now what the cracking pressure of the relief valve is. I will look when I get to the boat in the morning. Thanks for the information.

Jon

I measured the cracking of the current (welded, not bolted body) ShurFlow CV.  I had one in WM a few years ago and couldn't crack it by blowing a reasonable pressure.  If I went blue in the face, I could barely crack the valve.  I thought that strange and so did the WM store mngr, and we both felt they might be defective.  He gave me all in stock (no charge), as I wanted to check them against a pressure gauge.

I hooked them to a water column and discovered that about 4'-5' of water would crack them.  That's like 2 psi, which surprised the heck out of me.  Doing some research I found that "we" can typically build up only 1-2 psi over atmospheric with our diaphragm/muscles/lungs.  Of course, some behemoth could do more (like blow up a truck tire) but "normal" folks, not many PSIs at all.  So the fact that it took all I had in me to crack the CV was normal (was not defective.)

ken
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: KWKloeber on February 05, 2018, 09:06:22 PM
Looks like Shurflo should update their documentation to say that. Im curious now what the cracking pressure of the relief valve is. I will look when I get to the boat in the morning. Thanks for the information.

Jon, the literature for my Seaward WH says the T&P relief valve is 150 psi max.  So it makes some sense that the ShurFlo CV may fail (if indeed the info that the 100 psi rating is correct.)

I wonder if the ShurFlo CV failures are (in part) exacerbated when used on a HOT water application?

Also strange, I can't seem to find that Jabsco CV being currently available ( except on clearance at WM.)  Not in the Xylem catalog or @ any supplier that I can find.

The rabbit hole is getting curiouser and curiouser....

ken

2/6/18 Update:

There are several "RV water system" CVs to be found (Valterra, Camco, Aqua Pro, etc.) but I can't find their P&T rating in mfgr literature.  Makes me think that they may not be good for a WH use.

The SharkBite CV is rated 200F/200 psi, so I'll stick with that. 

If one uses the 1/2" SharkBite with 1/2" copper tubing stub outs, 1/2" reinforced water hose can be warmed and forced over the tubing, and double-clamped (w/ ABA/AWAB, of course.)  That maintains essentially 1/2'" flow thru the system (opposed to reducing flow to ~3/8" with plastic 1/2" hose barbs.)  Or use 5/8" hose to the WH and cold water supply tee, (5/8" hose will slip loose, but double-clamp down ok on 1/2" hose barbs, which are slightly under 5/8" OD on the barb.)

k
Title: Re: Water Filter
Post by: Jon W on February 06, 2018, 09:05:15 PM
The metal tag on the relief valve of my water heater says it opens at 150 psi at 212 degrees. The only way it should reach 212 is with shore power, engine coolant shouldnt exceed 165. Maybe thats what the OEM thinking was. A 100 psi check valve in a potential 150 psi system is not ideal.