Where can I get 9" bolts for traveler up grade?

[scgunner]

Catalina Direct sells an up grade kit for that purpose but the bolts listed are 6 1/2" which are not nearly long enough at least for my boat.

[KWKloeber C-30 #3573]

Kevin:

Have you spoken to Kent @ CD? If you don't know him, he used to be @ CTY Engineering so is a great resource.
Oftentimes they have or have access to non listed items.

Otherwise the Fourm 101 links to the post about the upgrade, which lists bolt sources.

[scgunner]

Ken,

Thanks for the info I contacted CD and was able to order the 9" kit, FYI it doesn't show on the web pages you have to do a search, it's part no. #13296.

[Ron Hill]

Guys : If you ever need a "fastener" of any kind always FIRST try "Fastenal.Com". They have bronze and stainless nuts, bolts, screws etc. etc.

That's probably where Catalina Direct got the 9" bolts from!!

A thought     

[scgunner]

Ron,

Now ya tell me!

[Stu Jackson]

Here in my town in Canada you have to be a member of Fastenal to buy from them, requires a tradesman's license.

[waughoo]

McMaster Carr is another good hardware resource.

[scgunner]

What I found in my searches even the good hardware suppliers who have a wide range of fasteners only go to about a max of 5" long, not much available after that. That 9" bolt is a real odd ball.

[KWKloeber C-30 #3573]

That 9" bolt is a real odd ball.

NOT at McMaster, which was the source recommended in the original post about doing the Critical Ugrade 101 Upgrade!  That's why I pointed you toward the 101. [correction, Critical Upgrade] 

[Stu Jackson]

• That 9" bolt is a real odd ball.
  

  
  
  NOT at McMaster, which was the source recommended in the original post about doing the 101 Upgrade!  That's why I pointed you toward the 101.
  

IIRC, it's in CRITICAL UPGRADES, not in 101:

https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html

[scgunner]

Ken, and Stu,

I wandered the labyrinth that is the McMaster website and while I'm sure those bolts are in there somewhere if you can find them you're a better man than me.

In any case I've got the bolts necessary to do the upgrade but what I find counter-intuitive is the recommendation that the thru bolts be mounted as close to center as possible. It seems to me you'd get a better purchase mounting them as far outboard as possible.

[Stu Jackson]

Ken, and Stu,

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In any case I've got the bolts necessary to do the upgrade but what I find counter-intuitive is the recommendation that the thru bolts be mounted as close to center as possible. It seems to me you'd get a better purchase mounting them as far outboard as possible.

Kevin,

It would be helpful for you to click on the Critical Upgrade link I provided and please read the two links in that first thread.  The reason is that the pictures I provided show that the long bolts that I installed on my boat came through holes in the traveller track inboard of the machine screws into the plate.  They also show the mistake I made of having one four holes in and the other three holes in.  Turns out that didn't matter much because the one further inboard on the starboard side just got an acorn nut stuck on the inside, while the other one just barely made it deep enough to be able to put a fender washer and nut on it!

If you put the 9 inch bolts further outboard they won't be long enough.

If you get longer ones, I can't tell you enough of the geometry of the curved headliner vs. the flat traveller fiberglass to tell you if it'd work.

That's why we recommend following what has worked for others.

As far as support, no, it wouldn't make any difference, because its still the two machine screws plus the two through bolts - over that short a distance it doesn't matter what order and that thick and stiff track.

[KWKloeber C-30 #3573]

IIRC, it's in CRITICAL UPGRADES

Oops!  Defo. I lost my CRS mind.

[KWKloeber C-30 #3573]

It seems to me you'd get a better purchase mounting them as far outboard as possible.

Kevin

I'm going to go a little outside my immediate knowledge of the 34 traveler/riser/deck sections here, so I may not be 100% right on. 
Forgive me Stu!

You have to drill down (ugggh) into the links in the Critical Upgrade.  To get enough length to use the outside holes, John's Plan B was to use all-thread from McMaster, and countersink the Acorn nut into the traveler.


This part is in my wheelhouse.
We know the force is greatest on the fastener when the load acts verically directly above it (the vertical component of the stress is virtually 100% - no horizontal component.)  ie, the boom/mainsheet blocks and car are positioned directly above the bolt, and nearly all (say 90%) of load is be transferred to that fastener. 

If the boom moves left or right of that car position the vertical component on the fastener decreases and (not an issue) the horizontal increases.

That's if all things are equal in all positions on the traveller at all points of sail. Of course sail pressure and load on the car don't work that way.

So very theoretically, the optimum thru bolt location is when you'd expect the hardest mainsheet (low horizontal load, high vertical load) and the car imparting that load as equally as practical onto both fasteners.

So I tend to agree that the optimal is where the two bolts are furthest apart.  Then, the stress is more equally shared between them as the vertical load is anywhere except maximum outboard.

The highest load is going to be beating with the car inboard (greater sail pressure, harder sheet so greater vertical component — the perfect storm.) 

And the further apart the fasteners, the more equally will the load be shared between them.

BUT that is theory.  If one fastener is way stronger than the load it could ever see, then taking 100% of  the load alone makes no nevermind anyway.

It's like I say about the Sherwood pump - yes, it pumps more but if you don't need that additional capacity why put up with a crappily designed pump?

That said my propensity to over-do (and sometimes regret it) I'd probably thru-drill for two on each side and to hell with relying on the embedded plate (because it's an unknown quantity.)

(Notice - ignoring my own rule about "excess capacity"  )

[scgunner]

Stu,

I did read and reread the links and taking another look at the traveler mounting I can see that the farther out it gets the deeper it becomes. The bolts CD supplied are 10" long but you're right I don't know if that's long enough for the outer bolt and I don't want to drill a hole to find out so I'll use the inner holes as recommended.

Ken,

When it comes to Geometry I dropped the class in high school before I could fail it so I'm not exactly an expert. My thinking was for reinforcing a wider base would be better but as Stu pointed out with upward force reinforcing closer to center would be stronger however since that pulling force can be generated from just about any angle when under sail who knows where the ideal place to reinforce is. The good news is as far as I know nobody who has done the traveler upgrade has had a problem.