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Re: Catalina 34, M-25 Alternator Mount
Conversion Kit
Ron, Enjoy the technical column in mainsheet. We
have a C34 hull number 287 (Confetti) that we sail on Lake
Michigan out of White Lake.
In the recent copy of mainsheet, you mentioned upgrading the
alternator bracket. I'm not sure mine was ever done, although
it hasn't presented any problems yet. I ordered the past tech
notes collection, and read the article on the bracket.
Unfortunately, the copy quality of the pictures that show the
old and new bracket are not good. I wondered if you had a
better copy that you could send, or a description that
would help me determine if I have the old or new?
Dave
Re: Catalina 34, M-25 Alternator Mount
Conversion Kit
Dave : Universal (now Westerbeke) came out with the
modification to the M25 that moved the bracket from over the
top of the alternator to underneath - the same as the M25XP.
They have the mod. kits. (SEE ABOVE)
Ron APACHE #788
Re: Catalina 34, M-25 Alternator Mount
Conversion Kit
Bob, I am in the process of doing this repair right now.
My gear cover was cracked by the alternator. On the original
design the alternator bracket is bolted through an ear cast
into the gear cover. This ear is not substantial enough and
cracks the gear casing just under the ear and out of sight.
The alternator upgrade bracket mounts to the exhaust manifold
which removes the strain on the gear cover. I am buying the
alternator upgrade bracket today for about $100.
I removed the sink and cabinet over the back
of the engine to gain better access (C30) as I was originally
going to pull the engine to do this job. However after looking
at it last night I think I may just take a dremmel tool down
to the boat tonight and clean up the area around the crack and
put some aluminum epoxy or one of the products available for
that type repair and see if I can save a lot of work and
several hundred dollars. I see no real reason to remove the
gear cover since I only have a small leak though a hairline
crack and there is no oil pressure on the cover. Once the
alternator is relocated to the bracket on the exhaust manifold
and I put some aluminum goop on the hairline crack it should
stop the leak. Works in theory. You may be able to do the same
if your hole is not a big one and doesn't affect the gasket
surface. Anyone see any flaws in my thinking?
John McCuiston
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
Ron; Enjoy the technical column in mainsheet. We have a
C34 hull number 287 (Confetti) that we sail on Lake Michigan
out of White Lake.
In the recent copy of mainsheet, you mentioned upgrading the
alternator bracket. I'm not sure mine was ever done, although
it hasn't presented any problems yet. I ordered the past tech
notes collection, and read the article on the bracket.
Unfortunately, the copy quality of the pictures that show the
old and new bracket are not good. I wondered if you had a
better copy that you could send, or a description that would
help me determine if I have the old or new?
Any information on suppliers of the necessary parts?
Thanks, Dave Rinard, Confetti #278
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
Universal (now Westerbeke) came out with the modification
to the M25 that moved the bracket from over the top of the
alternator to underneath - the same as the M25XP. They have
the mod. kits.
Ron, APACHE #788
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
Dave; I have the pics of the bracket, old and new, Thanks
to Stu Jackson. I will put them on the C34 Projects page ASAP.
You will see the difference.
Good luck, Capt Al, "kindred Spirit
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
Everyone!
If for some reason you haven't changed to the new alternator
bracket on your older (1986, early 1987) M25 21 hp Universal
diesel engines, DO SO IMMEDIATELY.
I learned the hard way yesterday. I'd bought the retrofit kit
from Universal a year ago, and was going to do it
"soon." I'd just motored over to a friend's dock for
a visit, less than 5 minutes away from our slip. When my
friend used the head, he came back and said, "Houston, we
have a problem!" He'd noticed oil dripping from the
underside of the alternator access door onto the head sole.
When we took off the stairs to expose the engine, the old
"over the top" alternator bracket had sheared, the
alternator was lying back to port dangling from the old fan
belt, and there was oil everywhere. As it disintegrated the
bracket and alternator had clobbered the oil filter, which
spouted oil onto the fan belt and blew it all over the engine
compartment. It also nicked the fresh water cooling hose. The
oil filter kept the alternator from slamming into the casing
of the engine.
I got out the new bracket kit, and with generous help from
George and Don, I removed the old parts, and fitted in the new
"underneath" bracket in about three hours. George
went out to get cleanup pads, newspaper to cover everything
with to keep the cabin clean, and a gallon of new oil. Don
helped with assembling everything in order from the kit and
the diagram. When George got back he was Mr. Toolman for me.
Most of the time was spent adjusting the hose clamps on the
new fresh water line which goes under the new bracket, since
there is only a very small amount of clearance between it and
the top of the oil filter. I also had to use a rubber bicycle
tube with a hose clamp as a patch over the dinged fresh water
hose, which, of course, was within a half inch of the end of
the hose on the new copper elbow. Also, we had to drop the
alternator again to move the alternator ground wire further
back to one of the other studs since the wire was in the way
when it was replaced on its old stud.
Lessons Learned:
1. If you haven't, replace the older style bracket TODAY.
It'll give NO NOTICE of failure: it will just GO! I was
fortunate that I had all the spare parts including the bracket
kit, spare oil filter, bicycle tire for water hose patch,
extra hose clamps and all the tools. Also was very helpful to
have assistance. Once you get your hands oily (with or without
gloves) you need a lot of help getting things you need without
trashing the cabin.
2. One of the tricky parts is installing the hose and its new
clamp underneath to provide clearance for the alternator and
making sure you position the hose clamp to permit access to
the screw for future tightening and checking.
3. The existing studs on the fresh water reservoir were just
fine. The retrofit kit comes with new studs, but I didn't have
to replace them.
4. Put the new belt on before you pop the alternator into
place with the new adjusting bracket. The kit comes with two
new fan belts. They're shorter than the original ones.
5. It's a heck of a way to do an oil change AND replace the
antifreeze!
6. The recent List contributions about plugging the hole
between the bottom of the engine compartment and the bilge
leave me inclined to recommend keeping the hole, rather than
plugging it. While I've got a mess in the bilge to clean up,
if the oil and antifreeze hadn't gone into the bilge, it would
have filled up the engine pan and spilled over into the cabin,
the head, and probably back into the area underneath the aft
cabin - not as easy to clean as the contained mess in the
bilge.
Stu Jackson #224 Aquavite San Francisco
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
More on Alternator Brackets February 1988 Vol 6, No. 1
by Herb Schneider
Most of us who have read the last several issues of Mainsheet
know that the alternator bracket on the Universal Model 25
diesel engine can fail, which can crack the valve cover,
resulting in a loss of engine lubricating oil. The
manufacturer changed the bracket during 1987, and the current
C34 production incorporates the improved engine, although
dealers still have some boats with the uncorrected engine.
Several owners have asked me how to verify that their engines
have the correct bracket, so I photographed two engines, one
with the correct bracket and one without. The correct bracket
uses an adjustment arm below the alternator. Factory supplied
engines will also have "Model 25 XP" affixed to the
top of the coolant reservoir. The old arrangement, which is
likely to fail in time, has the adjusting arm above the
alternator. By the way, the manufacturer does not acknowledge
this as a problem, and requires about $115 for the upgrade
kit. (NOTE: I paid $95.00 for mine in 1998. It's worth every
penny!)
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
Stu, Also read your msg to Al on the saga of your bracket
replacement. Let me give you a couple of thoughts. First the
best chafe guard that I've found for around that metal tube
that carries coolant above the oil filter is a piece of
1" ribbed black plastic hose (at any marine store -- el
cheapo stuff). All you have to do is cut a piece the length
that you need and then slice it lengthwise to slip it on where
you want chafe guard.
The shortest filter that I've found (which I also use) is a
Kubota 70000-15241. See the May & Aug 96 issues of
Mainsheet for more filter #'s and important discussion. As far
as the oil filters the Kabota 70000-15241 was only 1/4"
longer than the miniature Fram filters. What I didn't like
about the miniature Fram filter was the diameter. It only
seated on a small portion of the facing surface of the engine.
I also question how much filter material was really in there
because of the smaller diameter. Can't remember if it had a
clogged filter bypass or not, but don't think it had an
anti-drain back valve. Your engine -- your choice.
Another thought. I changed my belt from a 3/8 #395 to a 7/16
#400 which is a "tad" larger & LONGER. If you
have trouble and have the space toward the alternator door try
a #405 length belt.
Ron APACHE #788
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
As far as belt tensioning - in the dark ages they use a
mallet or pry bar. If you go to an auto parts store you can
buy a "belt tensioning" tool. It's like a turnbuckle
with a left & right thread at a whooping cost of $6-$8!
Screw it out till you get the correct tension then tighten the
alternator retaining nuts. Easy as pie. Then screw the tool
off. Meant to put this in the Mainsheet as a tip.
Don't overtension or you'll be buying a new internal water
pump. To get better alternator spacing maybe a washer might
help. I replaced all the bracket bolts with longer ones as the
holes were threaded all the way thru. I also recommend that
alternator upgrades be limited to 90 amp for side loading and
spacing.
Ron, APACHE #788
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
Same story. New, bigger alternator, new bracket, pierced
oil filter and now a life time of oil seeping into the bilge!
We solved the problem by attaching a turn buckle to the
alternator and the attaching it to the wooden block upon which
the engine is mounted. Easy to adjust, won't rub and is not
awkward.
Frank, Puff #691
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
Hello Frank,
Although my boat is newer and has a MP-25XP engine with the
bracket below, I wore out two 7/16" wide Gates heavy duty
belts on my new Balmar 100 alternator in less than 500 n.m. It
was impossible for me to keep adequate tension on the belts.
To adjust the tension one must loosen the alternator bracket
and the alternator mounting bolt, pull the alternator back and
tighten the alternator bolt while keeping tension on the
alternator and then tighten the bracket. Having done this
several times during a passage while burning hands and arms
and having to shut down the engine. I figured there must be an
easier way to add tension to the belt and keep it there. I
thought like you, add a turnbuckle between the alternator bolt
and the support beam of the engine. The only thing I was
afraid of is that by pushing the alternator out, one also
pushes on the engine and one could mess up the engine
alignment. I have not done this yet, but I really want to.
What are your thoughts about this? What size turnbuckle did
you use, and how did you mount it?
Looking forward to seeing your response or anybody else.
Leo Missler, Dutch Lion, C34 #1183, 1992
Subj: [C34] Alternator Bracket M25 Engines
I did this on the advice of my mechanic who has lots of
experience but obviously is not perfect. We did it upon
packing up Puff prior to putting her on the hard for the
summer (Florida), so I don't have lots of experience with the
turnbuckle.
However, I used a 3/8" turnbuckle a shorter one. Pressed
a nut into the eye of one end and then a couple of big washers
and then bolted all that to the port side of the alternator.
Screwed in a eye bolt to the engine mount platform and
repeated the process on that end. Also put another nut on so I
could "lock" it in by running it up against the
tube.
Wasn't brain surgery and seems to be very solid. It is not on
tight enough to change the alignment, I think. It could be a
problem if the engine vibrates and the platform doesn't but we
will see.
It will be a year before I actually try it.
Frank, Puff #691
Subj: [C34] 25-XP belt tension
Leo,
Just a thought about belt tension and the XP-25.
If you are just having problems putting normal tension on the
belt, then the turnbuckle solution would be ok especially if
you relaxed the turnbuckle after tightening up the adjusting
bolts on the alt. bracket. Flex mounts are supposed to do just
that. I would think that sooner or later the tension of the
turnbuckle would either pull things out of alignment or
transfer noise and vibration into the engine bed. If you are
trying to provide more than "normal" tension then
please check out below and confirm this information for
yourself.
When I was researching putting a high output
alternator on "Family Affair" a tech at Maryville
Marine, the Universal representative said that they didn't
recommend beyond the factory belt tension settings because the
front bearing and seal will not put up with a lot of side
stress. It seems that the front crank pulley is pretty far in
front of the actual front bearing on the block. Belt tension
therefore has a lot of mechanical advantage. Much more so than
if the crank bearing was right behind the pulley. That front
housing is aluminum and full of timing gears. The crank
bearing is way back (aft) behind them. Their suggested
solution was to add an additional pulley (making 2 belts) on
any alternator 100amp or above. They then say you can pull
about 5hp off of the stock front pulley. They have the kits
available on special order.
Ken Dickson, Family Affair, C34 #876 |
