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Author Topic: Ignition breaker location  (Read 423 times)

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dfloeter

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Ignition breaker location
« on: July 29, 2017, 01:19:25 PM »

I just spent the last hour searching for the ignition push to reset breaker on this m35A with no luck.
This afternoon started with a goal of checking my engine gauges and alarms. When I shorted the oil sensor to the block and turned the key I heard a breaker pop and the panel went completely dead.  I traced the wires and cannot find the mysterious breaker. Where did Catalina hide this item?
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Dietrich Floeter
Traverse City MI
1996 Catalina 34 TR WK #1317
Universal M35A
Rocna 15

KWKloeber

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Re: Ignition breaker location
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2017, 01:42:02 PM »

DF

It's NOT a Catalina item.  According to my Westerbeke info (I have not seen a 35A up close and personal) the engine is wired nearly identical as the XPB.  So look for a breaker on the stbd side of the engine.

Do you have a copy of your M35a Operators Manual? (it's on the TechWiki site) and tells you were.

NOTE: The engine 's electrical system is protected by a 20-
Ampere manual reset circuit breaker located on the bracket
on the left side of the engine. The preheat solenoid is
mounted on the same bracket.
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KWKloeber

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Re: Ignition breaker location
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2017, 01:46:16 PM »


 When I shorted the oil sensor to the block and turned the key I heard a breaker pop and the panel went completely dead.  I traced the wires and cannot find the mysterious breaker.


Why did you short the oil switch to the block? Is it a two-wire, two-terminal switch? Does the alarm sound when the key is on before you crank the starter (and there's no oil pressure)?

ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

dfloeter

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Re: Ignition breaker location
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2017, 02:19:38 PM »

You are right, the sender is two wire I,apparently, mistakenly thought I could ground the sender and light up the idiot light at the panel. The alarm ceased functioning last year and that is also on my list. 
Somehow in the process I tripped the mystery breaker. 
I do, BTW, have the manual but couldn't find any reference to the breaker.
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Dietrich Floeter
Traverse City MI
1996 Catalina 34 TR WK #1317
Universal M35A
Rocna 15

KWKloeber

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Re: Ignition breaker location
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2017, 05:52:01 PM »

DF

The reference to the 20-amp breaker is on the Troubleshooting page.
(typical Westerbeke has no troubleshooting tips for an alarm not working, who would ever have that problem?)

If the alarm is not working, the oil switch usually isn't the cause. 
The opposite is usually true -- a weak sounding, intermittent alarm with the engine running is usually a broken switch terminal or bad switch.

The wiring of the alarm on the A and B engines is convoluted.  One side of the oil switch goes to the fuel pump, the other side is power from the panel key switch - and shorting that side of the oil switch blows the 20-amp breaker.  At least you know that it works!

That oil alarm switch is normally open, and closes w/ oil pressure (that's opposite of the older engines.)  So long as there's power to the alarm module and no oil pressure (or you unplug the wires at the switch) the alarm **should** sound.  Because:

The power side ( + terminal) of the alarm is fed by the key switch (not unusual.)
The - side ( P terminal) of the pressure alarm is ALWAYS connected to ground (so it **always** sounds.)
****more on that later

When you either press the preheat button or there's oil pressure, 12 v back-feeds to the alarm (-) P terminal, so it cancels out the continuous ground and stops the alarm.  (very convoluted).

**** For the alarm to sound, the alarm P terminal goes to ground through an automatic-reset (not allowed by ABYC) 10-amp breaker (located on the preheat solenoid) and a 1/2-watt resistor (grounded to the engine block.)  If either the breaker or resistor are bad, or the connection to ground is bad, you get no alarm.  And when the engine is running, there is ALWAYS current going right to ground thru the breaker and resistor.  Stupid stupid stupid setup.

So, when Westerbeke bought Universal, it took a simple, reliable pressure alarm (on Universal's engines) and designed a convoluted system that is not ABYC compliant, added four additional failure points (preheat solenoid, resistor, non-abyc breaker, ground connection) and to boot, you can't test the switch.  That sells more Westerbeke parts.

If you can, please take and email or post a pic of the switch in place?

To test the alarm module pull the panel, test that there is key switch power to the alarm + terminal.
Jumper the - P terminal to ground.  Oil alarm sounds.
Unfortunately "typical Catalina" doesn't provide a schematic for the "A" and "B" engine panel/gauges, so I can't tell you more than that generic description of the test.

Ron rewired his XPB to avoid all that bulldung.

ken
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 05:55:50 PM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
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Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

KWKloeber

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Re: Ignition breaker location
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2017, 06:04:01 PM »

Oh DF,

I've posted it a few times, but I don't know that it's memorialized anywhere.   Make SURE you have the harness tied down very well at your oil switch (so that there is NO movement/vibration between the engine-mounted switch and the wire harness.)  Movement will break off one or both of the terminals on the oil switch. 

Not IF, just a matter of WHEN it will happen.  That's because rather than fine-stranded, flexible, tinned, marine Type III wire, Westerbeke instead uses stiff, non-tinned, automotive wire on its harness.

One way to prevent that failure point, is to clip off the harness terminals, and crimp on two fine-stranded marine type III wire pigtails to the switch terminals.

ken
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 06:04:29 PM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain
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