Wiring Harness, again

[KWKloeber]

Just sharing a harness I got in -- attached to a panel to do some work on. 

Pic 1 is the gummy bear behind the panel -- looked pretty good, not pristine, but not bad.   
The engine end had already been clipped and butt crimped together.   

So the panel connector didn't need to be eliminated, right?  No corrosion or melting, right?   

I couldn't even pull the connector apart -- it was like welded together.  I had to cut it open.   

Pic 2 are the male ends, corroded, burned bullet terminals on the power conductor, charge conductor (still had the ammeter, not voltmeter,) and the alteranator excite.   .  I don't see how that engine EVER started or the alternator field excited, or the batteries EVER charged.   

PLEASE PLEASE, anyone who hasn't already -- look at the 101 topics and read about doing away with the gummy bear plugs -- the boat you save might be your own.

kk

[Ron Hill]

Guys : Listen to what most of us have been saying about the "trailer plugs" -- they are a fire hazard and absolutely need to be change out!!!   Here's my C34 hull #788 story:

I bought my C34 in May 1989.  I knew I had to do something to support the Adler Barber 12V fridge.  In those days there weren't people out there that would/could really talk about what was really needed to support that kind of a drain on the batteries - many said just to add a third battery to the two small factory installed group 24 batteries - so I added another group 27. 
In those early days, before the internet we (C34 owners ) listened to what the C36 owners said - because the C36 was in production from the early 1980s.  At that time they (C36s) recommended the installation of the Spa Creek "Auto Mac" which essentially kept the 55 amp Motorola alternator charging beyond what the internal Motorola voltage regulator would allow!!
That sounded great so I purchased one, read the instructions and went WOW!*! - just like reading Greek.  So I set the Auto Mac aside for the next season and only ran the fridge on shore power or when the engine was running!!

Next season I decided to tackle the Auto Mac.  I had studied the instructions over the winter and installed it, but couldn't seem to really make it operate as Spa Creek said it should - at this time no one knew (or wasn't saying) that the alternator output was first being sent to the key switch and then back the starter solenoid and finally what was left in amperage went to the batteries!!
I screwed with it and pestered the hell out of Spa Creek (tech Mike Hoffman) in Annapolis for a few months by telephone.  Then in late summer we took a trip on the Chesapeake and wound up in Back Creek at a friends dock in Annapolis a few blocks from Spa Creek HQ. I called Mike and asked if he could make a "house call" and help me make this expensive "piece of junk" work!
Mike agreed and came over to trouble shoot and finally found that the reason the Auto Mac wouldn't work is because the units sense wire to the key switch wasn't reading battery voltage, but was seeing the 13.5 volts (approx.) that the alternator was putting out!  So it would never kick in. The key switch also turned the Auto Mac ON/OFF.
 
That's when I first found that the alternator output was first going to the key switch, because the 1986 first year and 1987 second year C34 had an ammeter installed in the engine instrument panel.  Sometime in 1988 C34 production the engine instrument panel was change and instead of an Ammeter Catalina installed a Volt meter.Of Course a volt meter doesn't need current flowing thru it, but the Catalina factory continued to use the same wiring harness and the trailer connections well into the 1993 C34 (and probably other Catalina production as well)??  My C34 came with a Voltmeter.  Anyway I finally got the Auto Mac to function and over time gained wisdom on what was really needed to keep the fridge (continuously running) from draining the batteries flat.  Later I found that the most probable reason for the wiring harness at all, was to have the ease of installation of engines/ items on any production line! 

So I install a Balmar Hi Output alternator/ external Voltage regulator (1990) and as part of the installation took the duel output and wired it directly to the battery banks. Left the dead Auto mac in place.

At the first SaiExpo in Atlantic (1991?) Gerry Douglas gave a seminar and brought up the "wiring harness fix" and kind of explained the reason for it!  I thought - I'll get that fix and install it even though my by passing that trailer plug would save me from a possible shorting of the plug, because I already had the current not going thru the trailer plug, but directly to the batteries.

That spring I installed the "fix" eliminating the trailer plugs - I found that at the engine plug disintegrated in my hands when I removed the foot or two of electrical tape covering it and the engine panel plug wasn't as bad - but not good!!  It was mostly just the engine heat that disintegrated that e3ngine plug and electrical heat at the panel to cause that plug to look burned.  Glad I didn't wait any longer!

So I can't even imagine what those trailer plugs on C34s that are 25 to 30 years old must look like  now ?????????
A fire just waiting to happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to be so verbose, but guys change out those plugs!!!!!

[KWKloeber]

Ron, your wiring may have been more screwed up than you thought.  The orange charge wire was supposed to go directly the ammeter, not to the key switch.

But even if the voltmeter mod was made, your gizmo would still be reading alt output voltage, because with the mod the alt output went directly to the solenoid terminal, and the solenoid terminal right to the key switch.  So with the only current being the small amps that drive the gauges, etc., there's normally minimal V loss in that circuit (unless preheating or starting)  and the gizmo would be reading only a smidgen under the alt output voltage.

A little more history/explanation on the history/reason behind the gummy bear plugs so that others can maybe understand more about their electrical systems:

The plugs are there not because of Catalina, but because of Universal Motors Company -- it supplied all their engines to their boat manufacturer customers  prewired, and so of course they provided an "easy" way for them to plunk the engines in place and hook up -- without a lot of tech time needed to run, connect, test the wiring between the engine functions and the cockpit panel.  I suppose boat manufacturers could have ripped off and done their own rewiring, or clipped the plugs and butt crimped, but not in the days of high production was that going to happen!! 

Universal also sold a wiring harness and a couple versions of cockpit panels.

Enter Catalina, who did it's own panel (actually Bristol and then Seaward) and said "hell, we're not going to buy a generic harness from Universal, when we can put one of ours on our boats." 

Then enter the "gummy bear" plugs -- not supplied by Universal Motors, but manufactured separately (I coined Catalina's engine-end translucent plug a 'gummy bear' years ago, because I read that they (and both halves of the plug behind the cockpit panel) were cast in molds using hot glue -- but I can't confirm that.) 

The Universal half of the engine end harness is a "white", hard(er) plastic plug, that doesn't disintegrate from engine heat.   It had it's own problems and would burn or melt from overcurrent in the orange charge wire (see Universal's OEM plug below -- photo courtesy of MaineSail.)  But it didn't fall apart in your hands as the Catalina side of the engine plug did (see my OEM Catalina engine-end plug below.)  The corresponding Universal half of my engine plug was pristine, not even a spec of grease on it (I had cleaned them up and wrapped them in vinyl tape when I got the boat.)

And of course (one of my favorite pet peeves) is that the harness contained absolutely no overcurrent protection from a hot battery cable (at the starter solenoid) all the way back to the engine from the cockpit panel (a recipe for an electrical fire.)

Part of the purpose of my run on, is to bring awareness of how many things owners say "Why did Catalina use ........ pick your poison like -- "a 2" heat exchanger" or "a Sherwood pump" really has little to do with Catalina itself -- it's just what was supplied in the heyday of a boat a day out the door by the component manufacturer (in this case the engine) that all Catalina did was bolt into place.



Note that Westerbeke and its Universal division STILL provide its engines with similar plugs (although they are the black, rubber type) and of course no longer have the high alternator charge current passing through the plug terminals.)  But, power to the panel and back to the starter solenoid "S" wire terminal, does pass through the plug -- so it can still cause starting issues if it isn't clipped off and replaced with straight-through wiring.

kk

[Ron Hill]

Ken : Thanks for reinforcing what MANY of us have been saying for years -- get rid of those trailer connectors and install the wiring harness up grade
[/u]
If our writings can help but one C34 owner to change out those "piss poor connections" it was worth the time and effort to tap out these messages.

BTW, my C34 came with a Voltmeter, the alternator output was connected to the key switch and the Auto Mac was connected to the key switch - so it could be turned OFF.

A few thoughts 

[KWKloeber]

Ron,

Yeah, but I prefer to describe it as --  "upgrade your wiring harness" as opposed to "install the wiring harness upgrade."  The latter can imply the Seaward or CD upgrade, which is only one tiny step for man above useless, doesn't solve the problems, and can make it worse.  These things need to be done, at a bare minimum:

(I know the various upgrades are in the 101 and Wiki, but it's so important that it's worth repeating to remind "new ears".)

* Remove BOTH gummy bear plus sets.
Within 7" of the solenoid "B" post, install a 10-awg weathertight AGC fuse holder on the red harness power wire to the cockpit panel.

* Move the battery neg cable from the bell housing to a starter bolt.

* Install a good point to connect the harness negative cable and other grounds -- like mounting a negative buss jumpered to the starter bolt. Or at a minimum use an unused motor mount hole on the block jumpered to the starter bolt as your "buss".  The studs on the engine exhaust manifold are especially bad ground points and relying on only the engine block itself isn't that much better.

* (if you have one) do the panel ammeter to voltmeter and harness charge wire switch-outs.

* Run a heavy cable from the Alt OUT or BATT post, to the solenoid "B" (battery cable) post (cable size determined by your alt size, min 8 awg for the 51 amp alt, heavier is better.)

* Ground the Alt frame to the neg battery cable (use the same size cable as above.)

* If your harness is in ok condition, clean up the conductors and use butt crimps in place of the gummy bear plugs **DO NOT use the euro terminal strips shown in the CD kit.  Secure/support the wiring harness.  ** (more complete instructions in the 101 and Wiki.)

* if your engine-end of the old harness (wire pigtails, terminals, etc.) are at all questionable, replace them all the way to each terminal (to the Alt, oil and temp switch/temp sender, ground point, starter solenoid, etc etc.)!!

* If your starter "S" wire (start switch to solenoid S post) wire is lighter than 10-awg (you need MINIMUM voltage loss in this circuit), replace it with 10-awg (you can re-use the orange charge wire that went from the alt to the ammeter.)

* Seaward/Bristol used non-sealed terminals on all the panel/gauge connections.  Replace the panel wiring and use adhesive heat shrink terminals.
Note, if you are replacing the pigtails on the engine-end of the harness, eliminate the butt crimps behind the panel, just use longer extensions and work the harness up toward the cockpit to gain enough length to make your wire terminations with the panel out.  Do NOT use the Seaward/CD euro terminal strip behind the panel.

* Check the oftentimes-forgotten ground and gauge sender wire at the fuel tank.  If in question, run a new tank/sender bond wire to your "new, good" negative buss.  Also the coming fuel fill bonding wire if you have one (although really unnecessary for diesel fuel -- it isn't explosive.)

There's probably some I forgot.  Using just the "harness upgrade kit" is a waste of $130 and doesn't solve the majority of issues  -- I had previously mentioned that I was looking for a C-34 owner to help me develop a drop-in, pre-terminated, replacement harness.  I finally found a C-30 owner w/ an M-25 who agreed to be the guinea pig, I mean help, so that will be coming along soon (I hope.)

kk

Ken : Thanks for reinforcing what MANY of us have been saying for years -- get rid of those trailer connectors and install the wiring harness up grade
[/u]
If our writings can help but one C34 owner to change out those "piss poor connections" it was worth the time and effort to tap out these messages.

BTW, my C34 came with a Voltmeter, the alternator output was connected to the key switch and the Auto Mac was connected to the key switch - so it could be turned OFF.

A few thoughts

[Stu Jackson]

* Run a heavy cable from the Alt OUT or BATT post, to the solenoid "B" (battery cable) post (cable size determined by your alt size, min 8 awg for the 51 amp alt, heavier is better.)

.........................Using just the "harness upgrade kit" is a waste of $130 and doesn't solve the majority of issues

Sometimes trying to be "all inclusive" can be misleading.  So can flogging a dead horse.

The Critical Upgrades topic (among them, this one, one reply of MANY on this subject IN THAT THREAD alone) http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg44056.html#msg44056  explains the issues involved.

This excerpt from Ken's post indicates, to me, that "one size [post] fits all" doesn't always work.

Why?

Because we've been suggesting for many, many years that skippers move the alternator output from the C post of the 1-2-B switch to the house bank and use a voltage sensitive replay (VSR, ACR, combiner or echo charger, etc.,) to charge the reserve or start bank.

This excerpt, as I understand it, assumes you have NOT done this, and, I believe could be misleading to new skippers, exactly the opposite of what Ken intended in his helpful post.

Look, we've spent years explaining this stuff.  As Ken said, the Tech Notes, these forum posts, the Critical Upgrades, Electrical Systems 101, and the Tech wiki cover ALL of it.

But, for goodness sake, it is not all in one place.  Nor should it be.

It is the responsibility of each skipper to design his own electrical system.  What I've done, what Noah's done, what Jon's done, what Ron's done, what Mark's done, what John's done, ARE ALL subtly DIFFERENT.

But they all work.

Why?

Because we've invested our own time and effort in LEARNING and UNDERSTANDING how it all works together.  And how, as we all use our boats differently, this can be.

If you don't know, and want to learn, we're here to help.  None of us were born electricians. 

I've owned my boat for 18 years, Ron Hill's had his for many more years than I have, others are newer, and all of us have implemented different STRATEGIES for their electrical design.   Most of us have helped countless others online and offline in designing and building theirs.

If you're interested in your boating safety, it's incumbent upon each of you/us to do the research and homework necessary to develop what works for you.  I've made the mistake in the past of saying: "This is THE way to do it."  I was wrong.

What we HAVE done is to give you the tools to figure out the OPTIONS and determine what will work for you.  Like real life.  Ever redo your kitchen with your wife?   

Heck, you could leave your AO going to the C post of the 1-2-B switch.  As long as you understand HOW IT ALL WORKS.

So, let's stop reinventing the wheel and repeating the same stuff over and over again, which, IMHO in this post could cause more confusion that it purports to resolve.

Read all the stuff, and don't hesitate to ask specific questions about issues that we can help you with.

I believe that this website has the most concentrated assembly of boat electrical system information on the internet.  We all built it together.

Not a bad place to start.

[KWKloeber]

Stu

Methinks you're close to explaining how a clock works here.. than taking the post in the method and spirit it was meant.

The post was about an alarming and specific point and correcting hazardous conditions in the engine to cockpit wiring harness. And specifically I posted that it's a "minimum", it's not meant to cover  upgrades in the charging system, or the distribution of charge current between batteries, etc. it's simply correcting a hazardous situation in the OEM harness.  True, the cabling between the alternator and solenoid/negative battery cable is a step above the OEM harness, but it's again a "minimum"If anyone were to make improvements beyond that, again, as I indicated with ACRs/echo chargers, etc., ad infinitum, it would be above "the minimum."   Anyone with the knowledge expertise wherewithal and desire to make improvements like Noah, Jon, etc. have done, would certainly know that the connection to the solenoid is not for them when designing their system.  Not so, the "new ears" that I mentioned the post  was directed to.

No matter whether it's the newbie. Or seasoned electrician contemplating a mega upgrade, buying the CD harness kit is indeed a waste of money.  There is no debate nor alternative facts - there is no reasonable argument in favor of purchasing it.   And, it does not solve the problems and indeed can make things worse. Period.

Enough of that dead horse.

Whether having all electrical upgrade information in one place, and that ' of course it shouldn't be' in one place, Is a matter of opinion depending on possibly your, versus maybe someone else's different perspective. Because this is everybody's forum, and everybody's information, and everybody can contribute to it, I don't believe there's a "right" nor "wrong" in  that aspect,  and "to each his own."   You for instance may find it useful and helpful not to have all related information in one place, while others may find that totally confusing and unhelpful.   There is an abundance of amazing resources available here  that was developed by hard-working people over many many years, but saying that all the electrical upgrade information 'of course shouldn't be' in the same location, may not be the same thought that everyone shares. 

Sorry, but in good humor I can't help taking that excerpt one more step in the logic chain, to wit:

"Should" all the electrical and upgrade information be in be available to sailors in one location? No, of course we want to force everyone to look in 20 or 30 different locations, with conflicting information, between many various different forum posts, tech articles, wiki locations, and whatnot else. With oftentimes outdated and conflicting information, and sometimes (as you indicated) incorrect information that was posted at first and needs to be changed to present the most correct information to sailors.  And sometimes the information or tips could be downright hazardous. We certainly do not want sailors, especially our newbies to the boat and to the association/forum who are not well-versed in electrical systems nor electrical systems on this boat itself, to have all that information at their fingertips in one location.   It's much better and a much broader learning experience,  if somebody has to search and search and search, make sure they have every piece of information available, and then sort out for themselves what's old, current, throw-away, outdated, hazardous to their health, etc. before touching a crimp tool.

Sounds ludicrous, right? But that's where the statement of "should be" and "shouldn't be" located in one spot, leads to  in the logic chain.

In more good humor............ musing right along here......
There is no correct "should be" because  this is a "no rules" location. But if there WERE a possible correct answer, the  "should be" whether, in many sailors minds, related information ought to be all in one location, would be that "it should be."    How was that for a Donald Rumsfeld-ism?

Signing off, Stu.  too late in the hour.
kk

[Stu Jackson]

Stu

Methinks you're close to explaining how a clock works here.. than taking the post in the method and spirit it was meant.................
..........................................
"Should" all the electrical and upgrade information be in be available to sailors in one location? No, of course we want to force everyone to look in 20 or 30 different locations, with conflicting information, between many various different forum posts, tech articles, wiki locations, and whatnot else. ................................
.......................................
Sounds ludicrous, right? But that's where the statement of "should be" and "shouldn't be" located in one spot, leads to in the logic chain.
.........................
.........................

Ken,

You have been among the leaders in not only providing information in your posts on this and other important "issues" with electrical and other boat systems, but have gone "above & beyond" in helping our skippers and others with hardware.  Your efforts are much appreciated.

In this case, you have provided much needed updated information on the wiring harness issue, which, to use your phrase "all in one place," would most likely belong in the Critical Upgrades page, instead of starting yet another, ahem, separate topic.  FYI, I actually put a link in the Critical Upgrades page to this topic!   "All in one place" was what we were trying to do with the Critical Upgrades topic in the first place. 

The only point "in the logic chain" I can think of, though, is what are called BOOKS.  Indeed, one of the posts in the "Electrical System 101" topic is just that: books.

This website is NOT a book.  It IS a collection of CONTRIBUTIONS by skippers who have taken the time, as you have, to SHARE their experiences.

We don't grade 'em, nor do we go back, all the way to 1987 (in the Tech Notes), or to the individual topics posted on this forum since it started in 2001, and correct 'em.

Nor will we.

Nor is it or should be our intention to ever do so.

Can and should we point them out when we stumble across them?  Sure, constructively.

I have attempted to "put stuff in one place" by starting and building the "101 Topics" both in concept and in content.

Are there varying ways of doing things?  You betcha.

I admitted, in my last post, that I, personally, was wrong about the approach of there being a "right way" to design an electrical system.  Maine Sail has written about the issues related to AGM batteries and the BlueSea Dual Purpose Switch related to sailboats vs. motorboats, yet folks still spend what I consider to be useless amounts of their hard earned $$ on AGM batteries, and put in DPSs on their Catalina 34s.

To assert that material is wrong is not incorrect.  It is, however, inconsistent with the basic nature of an internet forum, and what we have been able to accomplish here over the years.

What do I hear when you say: "...With oftentimes outdated and conflicting information, and sometimes (as you indicated) incorrect information that was posted at first and needs to be changed to present the most correct information to sailors...."?

I hear: "Holy cow, there's wrong information here, you oughta go back and correct it."

Perhaps that's not what you meant, but sorry, that simply is what I hear.  And going back to correct misinformation that we may discover is wrong simply ain't gonna happen ON A SYSTEMIC BASIS.  And I think you know it.

"... Anyone with the knowledge expertise wherewithal and desire to make improvements like Noah, Jon, etc. have done, would certainly know that the connection to the solenoid is not for them when designing their system.  Not so, the "new ears" that I mentioned the post was directed to....".

"would certainly know..." but maybe not at first, and other than this forum we do not know who these gentlemen are when they join us, what their expertise is, and what they know or don't know.  I do not know what Noah knew or didn't WHEN HE STARTED HIS ELECTRICAL UPGRADE.  I do know that I spent a very enjoyable afternoon with his delightful brother, who is an electrical engineer, discussing OPTIONS for his system.  They had already decided to use a multiple switch arrangement, which we discussed, and then moved on to other important issues, since it's not my "favorite" design, but it was their choice.

Are there "old things" laying around on this website?  Are there statements and even long articles that may be considered "wrong" either because of newer technology or wrong "from conception"?  Have many electrical system articles in Mainsheet magazine been outright wrong and, in your words, dangerous?  Of course there are.

But that is not the purpose of this or any other boating website and forum.

I think there can be constructive ways of pointing out "course corrections" that are necessary because of new ways of doing things and new technology.  Heck, this topic of wiring harnesses is a perfect example!    You may recall that when Gerry Douglas and David Miller of Seaward first published their article (http://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Engine_Harness_Upgrade) many pointed out that it was a "coverup" because who would have thought that skippers would actually ADD electrical gear to their boats (!!!) and make ammeters in the cockpit fed by inadequate wiring and gummy bear plugs a poor concept.

I believe we have done just that.

Thanks again.

[KWKloeber]

<<<I hear: "Holy cow, there's wrong information here, you oughta go back and correct it."
Perhaps that's not what you meant, but sorry, that simply is what I hear. >>>

Stu, please don't (nor anyone else who's contributed) infer that I meant to go back and do anything with prior posted info.  I never suggested that, and "it is what it is," because that's the way it is. 

My only stated point in that regard was that "nor should it be" (information all in one place) is one opinion, possibly not shared by everyone.  But your opinion is no less valid than anyone else's.  I just took the statement verbatim -- I won't presuppose what you meant, if something different, possibly it was "it would be preferable to have it all in one place, but that's unrealistic."  I dunno.  My bad possibly?

Just point of information -- when I see something in the wiki that needs some explanation or I have an alternate, I try to keep it together (like post right below the former) so that it's more likely to be seen and understood than a completely different stand-alone.

And as I said, the purpose of re-posting the harness pics, and (basic harness) upgrade steps, was a reminder.  The fact that there's EVEN ONE bad harness out there, speaks to the fact that not everyone has received (comprehended?) the seriousness of this.  Yet, will post a "hard starting" question when to happens to them. 

AND owners all should key into the fact that the NEED (not an option) to take care of a bad harness isn't just the "fire" argument (it'll never happen on my boat.)   What about when they need the iron genny (heading toward a shoal?) and cannot crank the beast up because the "S" wire is undersized and the solenoid "S" terminal is corroded.  It all speaks to the "safety bucket" that I mentioned in another post.

Maybe if someone hears it "one more time," they'll "get it" or it will be a "crap, I didn't know it was that critical" moment -- Maybe even if they had no intention of searching the site for things to upgrade.

I've been lax in completing the "what does my harness do? 101" that I began and got 1/2 thru so that we can post a complete primer on it. -- I share your "learn what it does" approach before changing/fixing things.

Again so there's no misunderstanding, and no one misinterprets the fix-it steps, it was ONLY a MINIMUM to make the BASIC harness and OEM wiring setup safe, not a full-encompassing or recommended procedure/steps for an ultimate wiring upgrade.  Hopefully, that will be more clear once the kit is final.

Thanks for all you and all the others do to bring current info to everyone's eyesight.

kk

[KWKloeber]

Stu,

I'm trying to understand where you're coming from and do the "right thing." 
<<would most likely belong in the Critical Upgrades page, instead of starting yet another, ahem, separate topic. >> 

Are you saying you'd prefer that I post to the other thread, and not a new thread?

ken

[Stu Jackson]

Stu,

I'm trying to understand where you're coming from and do the "right thing." 
<<would most likely belong in the Critical Upgrades page, instead of starting yet another, ahem, separate topic. >> 

Are you saying you'd prefer that I post to the other thread, and not a new thread?

ken

Doesn't matter now, I already said I'd included a link right back to here in the Critical Upgrades topic.

And thanks for your previous post. 

[KWKloeber]

Stu, for the future then? so I can do this correctly as preferred and avoid the roundabout.

Ken

Stu,

I'm trying to understand where you're coming from and do the "right thing." 
<<would most likely belong in the Critical Upgrades page, instead of starting yet another, ahem, separate topic. >> 

Are you saying you'd prefer that I post to the other thread, and not a new thread?

ken

[Stu Jackson]

Stu, for the future then? so I can do this correctly as preferred and avoid the roundabout.

Ken, you're the skipper who suggested everything be in one place.  THE place for wiring harness warnings has been, traditionally and realistically, first the Critical Upgrades and then the wiki.  Not so hard...since you have contributed so much to that subject right in the Critical Upgrades, right?

[KWKloeber]

NO STU,

I DID NOT, suggest that... That's an alternative fact.  ALL I SAID was your opinion might not be shared by everyone,  I didn't say what I would do nor would not do, nor suggest what OTHERS should or should not do.

Following your guidance, though, I will refrain from posting any more such "reminders" on fixing hazardous things to the main forum, only "where it belongs."  I've only posted to the Critical Upgrades 3 times -- I consider that basically "your baby."

Cheers,
Ken

Stu, for the future then? so I can do this correctly as preferred and avoid the roundabout.

Ken, you're the skipper who suggested everything be in one place.  THE place for wiring harness warnings has been, traditionally and realistically, first the Critical Upgrades and then the wiki.  Not so hard...since you have contributed so much to that subject right in the Critical Upgrades, right?

[Stu Jackson]

It is not appropriate for anyone to tell you what to do.  I have attempted to engage in this subject with some historical facts about how this website grew and happens to be arranged.As an Officer of the Association, I feel somewhat restrained in what is appropriate to share in public.  I am sure that our readers would be grateful for Wiring Harness 101 topic.  Thanks again.