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Author Topic: Transmission Replacement  (Read 6995 times)

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KWKloeber

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2017, 07:47:17 PM »

I would avoid getting it anywhere near any seals, being a petroleum distillate.   :!: :!:

I admit I do carry a small can, but the problem w/ it (JTSO) is that it's like many multi-purpose products, materials, and equipment.  Being marketed as a solvent, lubricant, rust buster, waterproofer, protectant -- it can't do any one of them really well without downgrading the properties of the others. 

Imagine lubing up your xyz bearing and then dunking it in a solvent?   :donno:  :donno:
Or using PB Blaster as a lubricant? Both are about 60% naphtha compounds.   :shock: :shock:

I'd say it makes more sense to use a product that's specially formulated to do the best of one job.   :thumb: :thumb:

It's like my pet peeve of being so brainwashed from birth not to think for ourselves that we need pharma to supply us cold symptoms reliever that have 6 ingredients, so that we're forced to take a pain reliever when we have no pain.   Or buy 17 different varieties of their product to ensure I we the one that contains exactly what we need.  How about just one bottle of each, and let us decide which one(s) we need to relieve what?

in other words  .......
paint and primer in one?  NOT.  adding more pigment to hide, doesn't make it a primer.
garlic salt, onion salt, seasoned salt?  NOT. If I want salt on my italian bread, meatloaf or hamburger, I'll put it on myself.

oooops.  Did i trip and fall onto a soapbox?   :rolling :rolling :rolling

kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Breakin Away

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2017, 08:00:00 PM »

I fully agree, and share your concern about people being fooled and/or forced to buy a cocktail of 6 medicines when 5 of them are unnecessary for a given need. The reason that people are being "forced" is because manufacturers are discontinuing their one- or two-medication products in their race to have more comprehensive label claim on multi-symptom concoctions. For instance, "Sudafed" has become a brand instead of a trade name for a decongestant. "Sudafed Plus" (which was renamed as "Sudafed Cold & Allergy") was a useful pairing of ingredients because the undesirable side effects canceled each other out, so that was good. Unfortunately you can't even find it anymore, as it's been displaced by multi symptom cocktails that cause some to overdose when people unknowingly double up by taking it in combination with things like Advil.

Off my soapbox now.

Back to the original topic, my specific curiosity was over the implication that WD40 is as bad as silicone. That's a strong condemnation, and I'd like to know what, specifically, makes it deserve that.

Your criticism is more mild and more reasonable. I'd like to compile a list of single-ingredient recommendations for rust removal, penetrating anti-seize, crevice lubrication, etc. Is there a thread that covers these things all in one place?

Back to WD40, I have found it to be a really good plasticizer. I have a really nice inkjet printer that happens to be 20 years old. Only problem is that every few years it stops feeding paper because the rubber rollers dried out and won't grab the paper. Some WD40, applied to the rollers every couple years, has kept it running great. Like Stu, I've found that this makes it really good for restoring the sealing effectiveness of rubberized gaskets on ports, hatches, etc.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 08:03:17 PM by Breakin Away »
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

KWKloeber

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2017, 08:43:19 PM »

1. My belief on silicone is that the only place silicone sealant/adhesive belongs on a boat is to glaze the acrylic on a hatch/port, not to use WD-40 or silicone on the gaskets.  I'm not positive which Stu was referring to. I have no problem using silicone lube depending on the location, but usually prefer dry ptfe spray.

2.  I doubt one thread exists, tho all have probably been discussed (hijacked) as herein.  LOL.  Sounds like a good winter's "soft" discussion for those "on the hard."  And then publish on the wiki?  Maybe Practical Sailor has something in its archives.

kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

KWKloeber

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2017, 09:37:43 PM »

Don't get me wrong on this ..............regarding tools, etc., that equally serve multi purposes vs a single purpose, especially on a storage-space-challenged boat, I'll carry a multi-driver over 6 or 8 single screw and nut drivers and hose clamp drivers.  That's why I have a 12v pump set up that serves as my oil and tranny fluid change pump, washdown pump, pink stuff pump, water tank emptying pump, and emergency fuel lift, fuel transfer, extra bilge, raw water cooling pump.  Not so much when it comes to salted garlic bread.

kk

« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 09:38:49 PM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Stu Jackson

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2017, 10:32:41 PM »

No need to paint it, Bill. Paint traps heat, right?   But throw away the WD40.  I think of it as silicone (only place to use it is on the Beckson ports).  Get Boeshield T9 for that use, and PB Blaster to remove stubborn nuts & bolts.
Just to keep this fact-based, what offending ingredient does WD-40 contain, and what are its objectionable effects?

There are better products for loosening stuck nuts & bolts than WD40.  Much better.

And butyl tape is much better sealant than silicone.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Bill Shreeves

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2017, 07:21:38 AM »

WOW! did that take a left turn and go 'round the block...  All good stuff guys, I learn so much every time I read a post or ask a question.

Stu - As you suggested, I'll leave the gearbox unpainted and use Boeshield T9 to protect it.  I'll also use it to protect my new stuffing box as suggested on another site.  I'm assuming your dislike of silicone is in reference to silicone caulk as a sealant?

Ken - I used a liberal amount of 50/50 Tranny Fluid/Acetone as a penetrating oil on my prop and coupling a week before attempting removal.  I was somewhat careful not to get the mix on the tranny I am removing and anything else.  I've read a number of times that mix is much more effective as a penetrating oil than most off-the shelf penetrating oils including WD40, PB Blaster and Kroil.

Breakin' Away - So, I just looked up the WD40 Ingredients and it looks like the predominant ingredient is mineral oil.  Either way, I've not been a fan of WD40 for two reasons.  1. I've never thought it was a very good penetrating oil 2. I hate the way it smells and it seems to linger forever.   The last thing I want to do is introduce yet another smell on the boat and will try alternatives.  With that in mind, would mineral oil be useful in restoring port gaskets?
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2017, 08:44:23 AM »

Stu - As you suggested, I'll leave the gearbox unpainted and use Boeshield T9 to protect it.  I'll also use it to protect my new stuffing box as suggested on another site.  I'm assuming your dislike of silicone is in reference to silicone caulk as a sealant?

Silicone can be a good sealant.  I just rebedded my traveler track after 16 or 17 years, not too bad, right?  Wrong.  Silicone is a bear to remove.  If I used butyl tape 17 years ago, I would not have had to redo it, it would still be dry down below.

Port gaskets?  Ask the vendors: Beckson and Lewmar.  The Beckson website is full of very good info.
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Bill Shreeves

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2017, 04:34:02 PM »

I assume there aren't too many C34's with M25XPBs but, for those interested... Other than being a contortionist, I was able to remove the ZF5 & adapter plate from the bell housing on my Universal M25XPB on my '87 C34 without moving the engine or heat exchanger.

The shaft, stuffing box & coupling weren't present but, I'm sure I would've had enough room to slide the input shaft out of the damper plate if I pushed the shaft as far back as possible.

The 2 middle 17mm bolts on the port and stbd sides on the adapter plate were a bear because the gear box is so close to the bolt a socket would not fit.  I was successful with a 17mm crows foot open end wrench on a 1/2" ratchet with long extension to get enough torque to loosen them.  I'll be able to use a torque wrench on the upper and lower bolts port & stbd for the re-install but will need to go best effort when reinstalling the two middle bolts with a crows foot.

i'll be going back next weekend to remove the damper plate.  I think it should be pretty straight forward removing with the bell housing in place provided I turn the crank shaft to put the 5 damper plate bolts in a position to remove them with an allen wrench.  It looks like an RD on my 2005 M25XPB, not the SACHS sold by Catalina Direct.
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KWKloeber

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2017, 05:20:40 PM »

Quote
Paint traps heat, right?   

Does it, I mean more than, over time a layer of oxidation on the aluminum case?  How about "aluminum paint", or an aluminum etching primer, no surface coat?  Would those transfer heat better than T9 (maybe last longer?)  Just questions. 

There's also other semi permanent moisture proofing, protectant sprays out there -- SuperLube brand's comes to mind, for one.  I'll be using that on an assembly in the near future and will report back!

k
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

J_Sail

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2017, 01:38:44 PM »

I am unaware of any testing data that demonstrates any significant increase in internal temperature of a transmission or engine when painted vs bare. At the few mils coating thickness, paint offers very little insulation value, and its black box radiation characteristics are more favorable than bare metal.

Also, a dry painted surface is going to stay cleaner than one coated with T-9 or other corrosion protectant. And, corrosion protectants need reapplication occasionally. Corrosion protectants make sense when paint is impractical, but if the tranny is removed, why not prep/paint it and have one less thing to worry about?
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Noah

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2017, 03:36:24 PM »

My Hurth 50 is painted Westerbeke Bronze like the rest of my engine. I would guess most older boats are as well. No issues.
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Bill Shreeves

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2017, 04:12:49 PM »

I ordered the Universal silver blue spray paint last week for the gearbox and touch up the engine.  If I were to paint the gearbox, what's the recommended prep?  I assume something to get the grease or petroleum products off the exterior but I'm not sure what.  A mild detergent or something more aggressive...
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The only thing that always works on an old boat is the owner...

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Stu Jackson

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2017, 05:34:06 PM »

Question:  IIRC, the gearbox is aluminum, the engine is steel.  Wouldn't one need different paint?
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KWKloeber

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2017, 07:06:56 PM »

Stu,

Painting aluminum is problematic.  I stripped my spars down and repainted them with Dupont Imron.  I had a client who painted aluminum truck bodies and he got the process down for me and ordered what I needed.  The key is that as we know aluminum quickly  (like in 20 minutes) develops a coating that defies perfect adhesion of paint. 

I D/A sanded, then immediately used an etching cleaner that I brushed on and scrubbed with 3M pads.   Water rinse.  Another sudsy cleaner and a water rinse.  Then an etching primer, followed by 2 coats of Imron (2-part epoxy paint)  All this had to be done w/ each step immediately following the other.

A web search or talking to an auto paint supplier would define the recommended cleaner/primer.  For a less technical route, Rustoleum for instance makes an etching primer. 

ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Stu Jackson

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Re: Transmission Replacement
« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2017, 08:17:22 PM »

For a less technical route, Rustoleum for instance makes an etching primer. 


Thanks, Ken.  Do you know if the Rustoleum primer can just be painted on and then painted over with an applicable finish coat?  IIRC, the Rustoleum products come in satin, semi-satin or gloss, but this may be for steel and not aluminum and I may be confusing the primer with their finish coat material.  Wouldn't be the first time I was confused.  Or the last.  :D
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