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Author Topic: Rotella T vs. T4  (Read 7965 times)

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Breakin Away

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2016, 08:14:13 AM »

Thanks for posting that excerpt.  Good info for M35 skippers.  And a good reminder.

Your surprise may be mitigated by the simple "March of Time."  :D  Some of us are old enough to remember the days before multi-viscosity oil.  We'd use a thinner oil in the winter in our cars.

Remember that the M25 engines were designed and built a long time ago.  There is a link somewhere (I'll try to find it) about the history of the Universal engines, maybe it's on the Kubota website.  But these tractor engines were in use well before they were stuffed into our sailboats!  :D

I believe the "argument" for and against synthetic oil may have less to do with hours of use than it does for cost.  Why spend twice as much for something that even the manufacturers didn't originally recommend?  New car manufacturers may recommend synthetic oil for their automobiles, but the tractor builders don't or didn't.

Your boat, your choice.  :D
Fully agree on all points. I recognize that the single grade recommendations may reflect the legacy oil availability at the time of printing of the manual.

Cost is definitely a big factor. Synthetic oil lasts a long time, so there is an argument to just replace the filter. But there are still a lot of combustion contaminants dumped into the oil over time (especially in a diesel), and many of those don't get filtered out. Intuitively I just think it's better to replace the oil, especially since sailboat motors accumulate hours slower than motorboats and cars.

Ken - The snapshot I posted is from the same 2010 operators manual that you quoted. And you are right, in a different section of that same manual there is conflicting information that does mention single grade oil. (Sorry I had missed that before.) Interestingly, it also says this: "Oil change intervals must be as listed in the MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE section in this manual and not be extended if synthetic oils are used." So use of synthetic oils becomes a very expensive proposition, in addition to the seal compatibility issues that Stu mentioned.

If you're updating the wiki, you might also update the engine section, which does not mention M35 or M35B as models that were used in the C34. Thanks for your updates! Sorry to create so much work for you.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 08:18:05 AM by Breakin Away »
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Jeff Kaplan

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2016, 08:19:01 AM »

I stand corrected in that I stated that in hot weather the oil thickens up, correctly as the engine temp rises to normal, 210 degrees, the oil, thru the use of additives, does bring the oil viscosity up equaling a straight weight oil.  As I did mention, in cold weather, 40 degrees of lower, a multi visc oil is recommended, as it will thin out so lubrication is made. In Boston our season is usually over by mid October, so no real cold starts, that's why a straight weight is acceptable.  And as I mentioned, Shell Rotella is the standard for trucking fleets.
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KWKloeber

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KWKloeber

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2016, 08:34:59 AM »

Quote

Ken - The snapshot I posted is from the same 2010 operators manual that you quoted. And you are right, in a different section of that same manual there is conflicting information that does mention single grade oil.

Interestingly, it also says this: "Oil change intervals must be as listed in the MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE section in this manual and not be extended if synthetic oils are used." So use of synthetic oils becomes a very expensive proposition, in addition to the seal compatibility issues that Stu mentioned.

If you're updating the wiki, you might also update the engine section, which does not mention M35 or M35B as models that were used in the C34.


Synthetic (15 yrs ago I used to use it, no longer) - not my opinion but from 'lube experts" that have posted articles, is not the best for marine diesel engines -- unlike truck and auto engines.  Stu is correct.  There's conflicting info, why take a chance? dino's been around longer than I've been.  Y'alls Boat, Y'alls Choice.

Wiki - Go for it.  It's "everyone's" to edit/update/modify. 
I simply wanted to replace a manual if I uploaded an old version.

-cheers
kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Indian Falls

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2016, 08:36:13 AM »

Tractor Supply, Farm and Fleet and Advance Auto Parts all have multiple grades of Rotella.
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Breakin Away

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2016, 10:29:02 PM »

I've been dropping by every auto place I can find looking for T4 in quarts. Was at AutoZone and Advance Auto on Wednesday, Pep Boys today. It's the same everywhere - around here they all have Rotella T4 in gallons, and Rotella T in quarts (or no quarts of T or T4). Absolutely nobody around here has Rotella T4 in quarts.

My oil change will will be done tomorrow (unless something goes wrong), followed immediately by winterization. In the unlikely event that I need more than 4 quarts to finish the job, I'll have to open a second gallon of Rotella T4.

I think that Shell is in the middle of their changeover from T to T4, and their distribution channel has lots of quarts of Rotella T to get rid of before they start selling T4 in quarts.
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Jim Hardesty

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2016, 05:11:59 AM »

You should be fine with a gallon.  As long as the oil level is between the marks it's good.  I would caution about adding too much oil.  Does no good and may be a problem.  FWIW I add Lucas to my oil.  I think it helps during lay-up and at engine starts.
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
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Breakin Away

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2016, 06:09:11 PM »

Just to close the loop on this topic, my local retailers have started carrying quart size of Rotella T4. It now is available around here as gallons and quarts. Rotella T is scarce and becoming scarcer, and will completely disappear shortly.

Do not buy Rotella T1 (unless for some reason you want a single grade viscosity) -- the replacement product for Rotella T is Rotella T4.
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Roc

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2016, 12:16:16 PM »

If I remember correctly, my Universal manual states to use straight 30 weight oil.
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pablosgirl

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2016, 05:42:27 PM »

My local Walmart is selling the T4 for the same price they sold the Rotela T. 13.99$ gallon.  So looks like they are not outing a premium on the synthetic.
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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2016, 07:26:33 PM »

T4 is regular multi-grade Dino oil. Not synthetic. Synthetics are T5 and T6.
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Breakin Away

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2017, 07:52:19 PM »

Quick update since I posted last year:

I did my annual oil change yesterday, using Rotella T4 15W40. I had no problem finding a gallon bottle of the stuff. However, just like last year, none of the local stores had T4 in quart bottles. They're still selling the now-discontinued Rotella T in quart bottles.
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KWKloeber

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2017, 09:23:19 PM »

As I've posted before, your local dealer has Kubota brand, both single and multi grade, in quarts, pure dino, not synthetic or blend.  Recommended by the Kb dealers.  From what I've seen, the Kb dealers price it a little lower then Shell.

kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Breakin Away

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2017, 09:20:57 AM »

Hi Ken, I decided last year to go with Rotella T4 dino oil, which has a large following. I'm just posting an update on local availability of quart quantities for the benefit of others. A gallon was fine for me this year, because I have extra left over from last year.

I'm not interested in switching to Kubota at this point, because I'd have to get rid of the extra Rotella that I'm carrying. But I agree, the gallon price is only a few dollars more than Rotella.

For next year I would be interested in using a Kubota oil filter instead of Universal's #300209 repainted version that I for this oil change. This cross reference chart shows 9 different Kubota part numbers. Any clue which one is preferred?

http://www.oilfilter-crossreference.com/convert/UNIVERSAL/300209
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KWKloeber

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2017, 12:23:44 PM »

hmmmm... not offhand, but look at the parts manual for the cousin Kb tractor block for the M35B that I posted in the techwiki manuals.  The filter should be in there.   99-44/100% sure it's the same filter as for the M35/a, M25XPB, M25XP, or M25.

That list is probably a huge number of old part numbers.  So, go to messicks.com plug into the Kb parts search with that p/number.  There may be a newer p/n than the p/n in the parts manual, but Messicks always lists both the predecessors and those that supersede.

I use Fleetguard fuel and lube filters, recommended by my Kubota heavy equipment dealer over the Kb filters.

lube:
Fleetguard   LF3462
Fram    PH3593A
Purolater   L14459

fuel:
Fleetguard   FF5226
Fram   P7514,  C6921

I believe that the above are the same for all the B-series Kubotas as well.

ken

For next year I would be interested in using a Kubota oil filter instead of Universal's #300209 repainted version that I for this oil change. This cross reference chart shows 9 different Kubota part numbers. Any clue which one is preferred?

http://www.oilfilter-crossreference.com/convert/UNIVERSAL/300209
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain
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