Catalina for canvass

[Jim Hardesty]

I talked with Sharon Day at the Annapolis boat show about replacing my factory dodger and bimini.  She recommended that I call Hilario the in house canvas person.  When I called all the info he wanted was the hull number.  He got back to me shortly and said yes it was factory supplied and had the original patterns.  He also gave me what I think is a reasonable quote.  Much better than the local canvas people. 
My question to the group is.  Has anyone had experience with buying replacement canvas from Catalina?
Jim

[Roc]

Never looked into replacement canvas from Catalina, but I'm interested in the quote they gave you.  I still have the OEM canvas.  Getting old, but still works.  I notice the fit isn't all that great, but I've seen worse.  I do notice from fellow sailors that bought new canvas from very reputable shops, that the fit is like a fine tailored suit.  If you find a good local shop, the fit would probably be much better.  I also found in looking at the way they are designed.  Some better ideas in how the lines enter the cockpit through the dodger among other things.

[Jim Hardesty]

Roc,
My original canvas fits well.  I didn't like the way the local shops wanted to do the replacement.  They wanted to add a lot of snaps to my frame and other things I just didn't like.  And I thought the price was high.  It was late last summer and was for $4,500 to $5,000 and they hinted that there may be some more add on for specials.   Quote form Catalina was $2,600 for dodger, bimini, connector, and window covers. $2,090 for just the dodger.  That's with strata glass.  I need to check on what thread would be used.
So, unless I hear about some bad experiences from this group soon I'm going with Catalina.
Jim

[patrice]

Hi,

That is a very good price.
That $$ would barely cover labor cost at a local shop.

The other question to ask, what type fabric will be used and thickness.
Because that will affect the price difference between 2 quotes.

[Roc]

Hi Jim,
Let me get this straight...  $2600 for all 3, with window covers AND strata glass?  That's incredible!  Like I said, from what I see on mine, fit is not bad, I've seen better. But at that price, it's more than worth it!!  Let us know any further information you find out....

[Ekutney]

Jim,

I am also looking for a Bimini, already have a hard OEM dodger.  I understand you talked with Catalina at the Annapolis Boat Show, I stopped by but was not able to get anyone's attention.  Can you provide a contact number for Hilario?

[Jim Hardesty]

Can you provide a contact number for Hilario?

You can call Catalina at 818-884-7700 and ask for Hilario.  Or call or text him at 818-470-9664.
Jim

[mregan]

That's a great price.  I had a new dodger & stainless frame made 2 yrs ago.  $4000 from a local shop.

[KWKloeber]

That quote is incredible.  15 yrs ago I paid $2k for my (C-30) California style dodger, bimini, and connecting awning -- no side glass on bimini, no panels covering the dodge glass.  Of course that included the stainless, as there was none re-usable. 

I would strongly suggest making pro-con lists of what you have that does work and doesn't work now, what you are thinking about changing, etc, what they are doing you may question "why", and transmitting to CTY and discussing it thoroughly beforehand. 

That oftentimes prevents misunderstanding as to the final product.   
Many times lack of communication causes issues -- like sailors, canvass people oftentimes do things because "they always have" and a fresh look or thought on it can open eyes and doors (for both the sewer and the owner.)  And ask the question -- is satisfaction guaranteed -- for instance, if I find some aspect that I don't like, will you alter it if I pay for shipping?  But think about what you want and any improvements before a final quote -- get all in detail/writing!

-kk

[Jim Hardesty]

I didn't get any replies with bad experiences.  So I'm going with Catalina.  I have confidence dealing with Catalina that I will get a very good replacement.  Will be spring before I'm able to fit to Shamrock.  Won't know till then how good it really is.
Here's hoping for an early spring. 
Jim

[Noah]

Are you sending them the old dodger as a template? If not, what do you do about the snaps and other current hardware attachment points that are screwed into your deckhouse cowling gelcoat, etc.? Remove, patch holes and relocte to match new dodger? I would think that "fit to boat" and ability to "customize" are key advantages of a local shop. Worth paying higher for...?

[Jim Hardesty]

I would think that "fit to boat" and ability to "customize" are key advantages of a local shop. Worth paying higher for...?

They are making my canvas from the original pattern.  Hilario just asked for the hull number and he knew the style and color.  He also mentioned that he designed it.  Sent the canvas because there were different connections used.
Hilario assures me that it will fit as original. I'm happy with that.  My local canvas shops didn't impress me.  Yes the jobs they showed me were tight and looked good.  What I didn't care for was they used a lot of snaps to fit the canvas to the frames and wanted to change a number of things that I didn't care for.  And I thought they were expensive.
Some canvas shops that you send your original canvas to remake take the old canvas apart at the seems and use that for a pattern.  I think that the final product would fit some what poorer than the original.  You don't get your old dodger or bimini back.
I can see that using the original pattern would be a real labor saver.  Think that making the pattern on the boat is half the work.  And he is the Catalina canvas guy.  This may be a good way for us that have factory canvas to get that replaced at a very good price.
Won't know till spring how good the fit is.  I didn't get any responses from others that had this done this way.  So I'm willing to be the first.   I'll get back in the spring and let the group know about my experience.
Jim

[Roc]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for this information.  I certainly will be interested in finding out how this works out. Going with the original pattern makes all the sense.  Should replicate what you (we) have exactly.  I'm curious to find out about the attachment points (Noah's reply) work out.  My canvas is looking pretty old, but I have a canvas machine and breathing new life into it as long as I can.  However, I'm going to be in your situation in the not to distant future.

[Noah]

I have a 1990 MKI and while it is appearing "old" and faded and may need replacing in a few years, I don't think it is factory original and thus don't know if attachments points would match even if it once was. Certainly the "windows" can't be original , as they are very clear. Perhaps they have been replaced, but not the canvas? My dodger attaches to the frame with zippers and the front window zippers in two spots and can be rolled up. Is this the original spec, for a MKI?

[KWKloeber]

I would think that "fit to boat" and ability to "customize" are key advantages of a local shop.

I have a little bit of experience with refitting to old canvas/stainless and my bro does marine canvas work, so.... take this FWIW.

No doubt CTY does excellent canvas work, or they couldn't sell the products.  No doubt in my mind when it comes to original work.

It's extremely difficult to fit new canvas to an existing frame/boat unless it's field-fitted. Many experts experts refitting don't so a very good job (actually "unacceptable" by my standard because it's MY money going on MY boat.)  With the proper tools in the field (eg, a quick-fit kit) it can be done and work be very acceptable.  On the other hand, I have had local canvas guys (one has worked on mine and does good work) refuse to do any a partial refit on a 36 I brokered from a pattern (some of the old canvass that was well worn.)  Not that he wanted larger fish to fry, but that he explained in the end the call backs and reworks are too costly because the result just isn't like doing it from scratch.  And the result isn't up to HIS standards no matter what he charged.  A 1/4" off here or there, and the canvas doesn't look right and can sag and look like poo-poo over time (i.e., no bouncing a dime off the dodger.)  That was with fixed frame with no adjustment. 

But, if the frames are set up so that the replacement can be adjusted, tightened, etc. -- then the result can be very acceptable and look like OEM.  e.g., the guy who did my bimini, dodger, and connecting awning 18 yrs ago explained when he came to initially price it, that the way he did frames and being a california dodger they would be adjustable so that if (WHEN) it stretched over time, I could still bounce a dime off the canvass.  Well, that's true -- and I'm thankful that I listened to him(I chose him blindly, but he was well known in the area) and have been able to tweak things over the years (Dodger, Bimini, and awning.)   
JTSO, but there's nothing that detracts from a boat's look as much than saggy canvas! 

So key is if your frames can be adjusted (w/o repositioning mounts) to tighten the replacement, all should be much better than if they are fixed and "you have what you have."

Just my 0.02.

-kk