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Author Topic: Difficulty shifting into forward  (Read 9155 times)

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KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2016, 01:21:45 PM »


My ZF distributor has the OE part in stock.  $4.00 a pop. But first I would first get a fiber washer w/ ID that fits the external threads, and Dremel or bench grinder away the unneeded excess OD.

You're more likely to find one that fits in a good plumbing supply house than an auto parts.  There is probably a red or white 16mm fiber (maybe even nylon) faucet "cap nut gasket" that fits it - they are typically very thin (diameter-wise that is) because there's not much shoulder on a cap nut.  My poorly stocked hardware has a rack with drawers containing 25-30 different size loose ones.  The problem w/ Ace is that they have gone to everything being prepackaged and if it doesn't have a SKU or bar code number, they don't can't even order it from the warehouse anymore. 

-ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Noah

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2016, 07:48:30 PM »

Come on Ken...really? That's a "long way to go" to save $4. Even if you add shipping, heck throw in two of them.... What would you charge to go to the store, shop around and then break out the Dremel, and vice... Ok maybe vice grips and one hand it... and, and...?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 07:49:10 PM by Noah »
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2016, 08:39:45 PM »

I'm at a loss to see the prob,  Noah?

I never commented  on the cost.

If one reads the entire thread and not just the last post, he already found the correct ID, but the OD was too generous.  Just suggested a quick fix (I thought maybe that might not have occurred   to him).  I'll be glad to order and ship as many as you or anyone  wants. 


Although, $4 a pop, plus probably 10 bucks UPS min charge from the distributor and another 67  cents for me to mail - and no doubt 6 days total, doesn't make a lot of sense to me if I can support a local biz that has the right size (cap nut gasket), or I can take 5 min to file down a fiber washer. 


Actually if I knew the max OD, today I would have picked up a gasket while I was at the hw store and mailed it n/c.   If you or someone else cares to let me know' I'll be glad to.


-kk

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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2016, 09:32:38 PM »

Breakin'


Which size is closest?  --- I presume you may still have the dipstick and can measure the hex head.

I read that the size was 16 mm -- not sure if that's the ID, or if the ID is actually 17mm (for a 16mm bolt.)

-kk
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 09:50:00 PM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Noah

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2016, 11:21:44 PM »


My ZF distributor has the OE part in stock.  $4.00 a pop. But first I would first get a fiber washer w/ ID that fits the external threads, and Dremel or bench grinder away the unneeded excess OD.
-ken

All I was saying was if the OEM part was available for $4.00, I wouldn't spend my time (money) and energy, shopping/looking for one that was "close" and then jerry rigging or machine it to fit...Maybe just me?
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2016, 11:02:02 AM »

I read your transmission 5 by 5, Noah.  Maybe mine was garbled so I rephrase: Why jump on me for offering Breakin two alternatives (and never commented on the cost)??  Crap, the memo wasn't really clear on this -- is supposed to be one idea per individual post? Or one idea total?  OEM preferred, right?  I'm all in for that.  C'mon let's you and me hunt down Breakin and beat the snot out of him for even thinking about a 49-cent part in the first place vs a $4 part.

** It's all good Noah -- I'm just bustin on you   :D (or pickin' at yah -- as we say on our end of the 32nd parallel.)

But you posted before you have the wherewithal to pay more for convenience -- so the OEM delivered right to your doorstep will be $17.42 for two sealing rings.  How many are yah in for?  You can Paypal me,  C'mon, pony up. It'll make good Karma, or make Karma good as it were.  Buy 25 and they ship n/c.  Pass 'em out to dock mates - like lighting cigars with two, two-dollar bills.  Really good Karma.

Oppps, pickin' again.  It's a slow day over here -- gettin punchy.  Sarchasm and pickin' no extra charge  :D

Anyone else countin' dimes (not to "overpay" vs "right-pay,") -- if someone will pass me the proper (ID/OD) size -- better to have it tight so it stays captive above the threads -- I'll mail yah the 4-cent aftermarket for n/c.   Yah don't even have to send me a S.A.S.E.

Remember, it's all good.
-kk
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 11:02:30 AM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Breakin Away

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2016, 07:21:45 PM »

Stores #3 and 4 were a bust the past two days. Empty pegs on the M16 washers.

One of my challenges, of course, is that I've never seen the correct washer. I measured the plug's OD to the tips of the threads (i.e., washer ID) as 5/8" or 16mm. Getting a good look at the dipstick hole to see the correct washer ID was not possible. So not really sure what the OD should be.

I was able to find an O-ring which I am sure would be a good fit, and would do fine to prevent metal-to-metal contact on the drain plug. Are there issues here? I assume the transmission gets warm, but probably not too hot. And I don't think tranny fluid is going to attack an O-ring. Are there pressure issues if an O-ring makes too good a seal? I read somewhere else that a (different model?) Hurth transmission has a vent hole in the dipstick nut, and someone lost their dipstick and replaced it with a rubber stopper which sealed it too well and blow out some other seals. I read that on the Internet, so it must be true!   :thumb:
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 07:35:44 PM by Breakin Away »
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Noah

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2016, 07:33:43 PM »

If anyone has the source for the correct washer (4 bucks or 14 bucks) lets help the guy out and send him the part number and source to order one and let him decide at this point what is too much. Two stores later... and how many more? I'm done on this subject. Gone saiing 8)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 07:34:38 PM by Noah »
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2016, 07:40:17 PM »

Yes your dipstick should be hollow and the vent is completed via a hole through one side of the hex head. 

The head should not be just a hex -- it should have a round shoulder below it, so dipso, if the washer is approx the same OD as the round shoulder (that's about what the original is), then it will fit OK.  An O ring would be short term fix -- ti will push out around the shoulder if tightened significantly.  There;s another style crush washer that is neoprene surrounded by a metal cup washer (that's where I picked up the 16mm.)

If I had my dipstick here I could match it up, but it's an hour away.

-kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Breakin Away

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2016, 07:45:01 PM »

Yeah, mine's two hours away, which makes it a pain. Last time I was down there I looked for the hole on top and didn't see one. I didn't think to look on the side, because it wasn't taken out at the time. I had noticed that the dipstick was hollow last time I pulled it out.

Sounds like the O-ring will be the temporary fix while I figure out the long-term fix. I got 10 of them for about $2, so that should last awhile. I'll look for signs that it's squeezing out and avoid over-tightening.
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2016, 07:57:37 PM »

I put a shout out to my C30 folks -- some have their boats at their house, so I may have an answer tomorrow.

-ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Breakin Away

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2016, 07:26:53 PM »

FYI, I drilled a new hole in the mounting plate, and expanded an existing one, so that I now have a pair of holes exactly 1/2" away from the current holes. While I was at it, I used a bench grinder with wire brush attachment to take off all rust, and repainted the thing. Friday night I went down to the boat and reinstalled the plate and shift cable, and now the transmission's shift lever travels exactly 35mm in both directions. For the inner hole attachment, minimum travel spec is 30mm, so the travel now exceeds the minimum by a comfortable amount in both directions.

There is still a slight delay in the transmission engaging in forward, but it is consistent and repeatable. And the shifting action is very smooth.

I went through the service history file for the boat, and found paperwork indicating that the previous owner sent out the transmission for a complete rebuild in early 2015 (due to rough shifting), then had an unexpected move out of the area before the rebuild was complete. The boat stayed on the hard until my sea trial about 18 months later. So when I purchased the boat it had a newly rebuilt and unused transmission.

I do wonder if the rough shifting and transmission rebuild (at only 468 hours) was due to this poorly adjusted shift linkage. Whether or not, I am glad I picked up on this problem, as it should hopefully extend the life of the rebuilt transmission.
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2016, 07:27:48 PM »

I can mail you a 5/8 x 3/4" or 5/8 x 7/8" fiber washer to try (depending on which OD works for your flange bolt head and where it sits -- or a crush washer (which I believe is OE) but theoretically that;s good for only one use, so I'd use a fiber washer.

kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Breakin Away

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2016, 11:53:46 AM »

I can mail you a 5/8 x 3/4" or 5/8 x 7/8" fiber washer to try (depending on which OD works for your flange bolt head and where it sits -- or a crush washer (which I believe is OE) but theoretically that;s good for only one use, so I'd use a fiber washer.

kk
Thanks for the offer! Still trying to pop into another store or two, but had difficulty getting out of work before they close. I'll let you know.

For now, I have an O-ring there, but would like to move to fiber ASAP. It may be another week before I know, because I need to get to the boat to look it over. If you go to this trouble for me, I want to be sure you get the right size. ID is definitely no larger than 16 mm, based on how the O-ring fits.
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2016, 12:20:39 PM »

I have the C30 folks checking for me also -- they are saying 5/8" ID and the flange bolt head is 13/16".  But I'm not sure if a 7/8" will fit the recess (not near my transmission.)

-k
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain
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