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Author Topic: Difficulty shifting into forward  (Read 9458 times)

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Breakin Away

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Difficulty shifting into forward
« on: September 16, 2016, 08:06:53 AM »

My boat has some inconsistency when shifting into forward. I have had similar problems with charter boats before, so I think it may be a common problem.

Due to the shape of the Edson shift levers, they hit against the SS pedestal guard tube, preventing the levers from going forward as far as they might otherwise. As a result, it seems like the shift lever does not always get the boat into forward.

My workaround for now has been the same thing I did on similar charter boats: Push the shift lever into forward as firmly as I can, and wait a second until I hear it go into forward gear before I apply any additional throttle.

Once every few weeks it does not go into forward at all on the first try, and I need to pull the lever back to the neutral detente position and do it again. Fortunately this has not happened during any critical docking maneuvers. And so far, it has always gone into forward on the second attempt. I always worry that I may get to a point where it does not go into forward at all.

My concern is that if I attempt to adjust the shift cable to go into forward more readily, the boat may not go into reverse reliably, or may not go into neutral at the middle detent position. So before experimenting I thought I would pick your brains for any similar experiences and suggestions for how to solve this problem.
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2016, 08:15:59 AM »

I had the same issue when I changed to the Edson s/s handles on my 30 and Hurth-50.  Just adjust the cable to the best compromise.  Don't go overboard, just fine tune it. She'll always go into neutral -- it's controlled by the Hurth end, not the handle end.

-kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Stu Jackson

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2016, 08:19:53 AM »

This is a recurring, and old, issue.  You MUST adjust it or you'll damage your transmission.  Do what Ken said or bend the lever.  Fix it before you have an expensive repair.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Breakin Away

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2016, 08:26:10 AM »

I'll dive into the manual next time I get to the boat. But in the meantime, any tips and tricks for how to do the adjustment would be appreciated. I assume there is an adjustable nut and locknut at one end of the shift cable outer sheath, presumably at where it attaches to the transmission. Any suggestions of where to find it, how to easily access it, and what direction/how far to turn it, may help reduce my trial-and-error.

Or if there's a link to a tech article somewhere that would be even better.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 08:27:46 AM by Breakin Away »
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DaveBMusik

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2016, 08:32:13 AM »

Just did this a month ago. In short, take off the compass and the adjusting screwas are accessible. I adjusted the friction on my throttle while I was there. Edson has great schematics on line.
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Dave Burgess
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Yanmar 3YM30
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Breakin Away

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2016, 08:34:34 AM »

Oh, that's the opposite end of what I was thinking. Probably more accessible there.

While I have the compass off, is there anything else I should do? Lubricate the steering chain? (If there is a chain)
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KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 08:56:26 AM »

Oh, that's the opposite end of what I was thinking.

Clarification -  :oops: I should have explained that there's two ways to adjust this. 
At the pedestal end, you remove the clevis pin and clevis from the handle and adjust the clevis in or out (as you would a turnbuckle) and lock-nut it in the new position, rein stall the pin (while working in a confined spot and not drop anything.)  Or adjust at the tranny end.  On the 30 it's way easier to get at the tranny end -- nothing to do but open one access door (I cant say about access on the 34.)  Just make sure it's not at the end of the thread travel if you use the pedestal method.

-k
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
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Ron Hill

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 04:07:42 PM »

Break : Have you checked the service bulletin from Westerbeke on the shifting adjustments on the Hurth 100/ZF10 transmissions??

A thought  :roll:
 
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DaveBMusik

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 05:31:33 PM »

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Dave Burgess
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Breakin Away

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2016, 06:47:03 PM »

Break : Have you checked the service bulletin from Westerbeke on the shifting adjustments on the Hurth 100/ZF10 transmissions??

A thought  :roll:
I have both the operators manual and the service manual for the M35B, which includes specs and illustrations for adjusting the travel of the shift lever on Hurth transmissions (1 3/8" minimum travel in both directions). However, your use of the word "service bulletin" implies a revision to the original manual. Google failed to generate any hits on a "service bulletin". So if you could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

I also found this interesting tidbit in the manual, which goes contrary to the advice I was given to always lock the prop in reverse when sailing:

Quote
WHEN UNDER SAIL OR BEING TOWED
Rotation of the propeller without load, such as when the boat
is being sailed, being towed, or anchored in a river, as well as
operation of the engine with the propeller stopped (for
charging the battery), will have no detrimental effects on the transmission.

What is the prevailing wisdom on this from the C34 community? Obviously, letting the prop free-wheel would improve sailing speed due to less resistance, but I had heard that it would wear out the gearbox, although the manual seems to suggest that it will not.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 06:53:30 PM by Breakin Away »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 07:20:00 PM »

However, your use of the word "service bulletin" implies a revision to the original manual. Google failed to generate any hits on a "service bulletin". So if you could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.



Have you checked the Critical Upgrades topic?  IIRC, there's a link to the Westerbeke service bulletins.
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Breakin Away

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2016, 08:19:45 PM »

Have you checked the Critical Upgrades topic?  IIRC, there's a link to the Westerbeke service bulletins.
I could not find a link by manually scanning the topic. Most message boards have a "search within topic" option, but I can't find it here. Am I missing it? Searching the whole message board generated too many spurious hits.

I did find some TSBs on the Westerbeke website. The one on shift lever (SB36) seemed to just say the same thing that the manual already says.
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KWKloeber

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2016, 08:38:39 PM »


I also found this interesting tidbit in the manual, which goes contrary to the advice I was given to always lock the prop in reverse when sailing:

Quote
WHEN UNDER SAIL OR BEING TOWED
Rotation of the propeller without load, such as when the boat
is being sailed, being towed, or anchored in a river, as well as
operation of the engine with the propeller stopped (for
charging the battery), will have no detrimental effects on the transmission.

What is the prevailing wisdom on this from the C34 community? Obviously, letting the prop free-wheel would improve sailing speed due to less resistance, but I had heard that it would wear out the gearbox, although the manual seems to suggest that it will not.

If it's freewheeling, in neutral, then it's turning with no load (i.e., not detrimental as stated). 
So is locking it in reverse not detrimental -- so with a 2-blade you can position the cups vertical (cuts drag.)
Don't lock it in forward.

-kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Breakin Away

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2016, 08:58:52 PM »


I also found this interesting tidbit in the manual, which goes contrary to the advice I was given to always lock the prop in reverse when sailing:

Quote
WHEN UNDER SAIL OR BEING TOWED
Rotation of the propeller without load, such as when the boat
is being sailed, being towed, or anchored in a river, as well as
operation of the engine with the propeller stopped (for
charging the battery), will have no detrimental effects on the transmission.

What is the prevailing wisdom on this from the C34 community? Obviously, letting the prop free-wheel would improve sailing speed due to less resistance, but I had heard that it would wear out the gearbox, although the manual seems to suggest that it will not.

If it's freewheeling, in neutral, then it's turning with no load (i.e., not detrimental as stated). 
So is locking it in reverse not detrimental -- so with a 2-blade you can position the cups vertical (cuts drag.)
Don't lock it in forward.

-kk
I have 3 blade non-folding prop, so locking in reverse really increases drag. I'd love to leave it in neutral for less drag, but had always been told not to do this. I guess it's OK unless someone else says they saw increased wear on gearbox or packing gland.
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DaveBMusik

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Re: Difficulty shifting into forward
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2016, 07:14:17 AM »

I too have a three blade prop. I am unable to shift out of reverse under load and must start it in gear. I have reverted to staying in neutral.


I also found this interesting tidbit in the manual, which goes contrary to the advice I was given to always lock the prop in reverse when sailing:

Quote
WHEN UNDER SAIL OR BEING TOWED
Rotation of the propeller without load, such as when the boat
is being sailed, being towed, or anchored in a river, as well as
operation of the engine with the propeller stopped (for
charging the battery), will have no detrimental effects on the transmission.

What is the prevailing wisdom on this from the C34 community? Obviously, letting the prop free-wheel would improve sailing speed due to less resistance, but I had heard that it would wear out the gearbox, although the manual seems to suggest that it will not.

If it's freewheeling, in neutral, then it's turning with no load (i.e., not detrimental as stated). 
So is locking it in reverse not detrimental -- so with a 2-blade you can position the cups vertical (cuts drag.)
Don't lock it in forward.

-kk
I have 3 blade non-folding prop, so locking in reverse really increases drag. I'd love to leave it in neutral for less drag, but had always been told not to do this. I guess it's OK unless someone else says they saw increased wear on gearbox or packing gland.
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Dave Burgess
Water Music
1986 C34 Hull #206, Fin Keel
Yanmar 3YM30
Noank, CT
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