Gearbox problem, lifting the engine

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RobertSchuldenfrei

JUST FOUND TECH NOTE NOV 2000 ON CHANGING ENGINE MOUNTS:  It tells you how to lift the engine using a block and tackle hung from the boom.

Hi Forum,

Esprit du Vent has a problem in the gearbox.  Franco was on board yesterday and reports:  "I had to drain the transmission fluid (so no starting the engine until that is refilled!!!).  I noted that it does not seem to be the transmission and suspects the gearbox (more specifically the mechanism / spring which triggers it).  Unfortunately, the location of this on our engine (1987 Mk I with the Universal M-25XP) will require we lift the engine for to access it as there is not enough clearance to get at it  :(.  Certainly not the news we wanted... I know others have rebuilt the transmission and gearbox.  We need to know how to access it and lift the block?  I think it can be done by suspending the block from a piece of wood in the companionway and lifting it with a block & tackle."  Any details on this procedure?

TIA,

Bob
Robert Schuldenfrei
Esprit du Vent - #422

Ron Hill

#1
Bob : You are going to have to lift the engine, swing it forward and move it out of the engine compartment.  Then you'll have to remove the bell housing from the engine block so you can access the transmission bolts (from the inside ) of the bell housing, to remove the transmission.

Without saying you'll have to disconnect everything - the drive shaft, exhaust riser, fuel lines, shift/throttle cables and all wiring.  Get yourself or rent a chain hoist.
There are a number of articles on lifting the engine, removing & replacing the engine.  Look in WiKi and the Mainsheet tech notes for articles on "How to".

Been there done that!   :thumb:
Ron, Apache #788

RobertSchuldenfrei

Thank you Ron.  We can't not tackle this until the weekend of April 2nd.  We are still collecting information from people who have been down this road.  Bob

Quote from: Ron Hill on March 22, 2016, 11:40:47 AM
Bob : You are going to have to lift the engine, swing it forward and move it out of the engine compartment.  Then you'll have to remove the bell housing from the engine block so you can access the transmission bolts (from the inside of the bell housing, to remove the transmission.

Without saying you'll have to disconnect everything - the drive shaft, fuel lines, shift/throttle cables and all wiring. 
There are a number of articles on lifting the engine, removing & replacing the engine.  Look in WiKi and the mainsheet tech notes.

Been there done that!   :thumb:
Robert Schuldenfrei
Esprit du Vent - #422

Paulus

I had my transmission redone at Torresen in Muskegon.  They had to lift the back of the engine about 2".  They unhooked the coupling, cables, hump hose and removed the Heat exchanger and took the top nuts of the motor mounds.  Then they were able to remove the bell housing and undo the transmission from the bell housing. 
Paul
Cool Change 1989 #944

RobertSchuldenfrei

Hi Forum Readers,

Paul Chasse, C34 #1282, used a used a come-a-long and a 2 by 4 across the companionway to lift his engine.  This would be good if we only have to lift the engine.  If we have to swing it over to the dock, we would need to use the halyard / boom method.  I will keep probing for ideas as this will be done over the weekend of April 2 - 3.

Cheers,

Bob
Robert Schuldenfrei
Esprit du Vent - #422

Ron Hill

#5
Bob : Read my articles on removing and replacing the engine.   
I removed the old engine and replaced it twice!! and then finally removed it and replaced it with a new engine.

If you want to do it yourself I'd recommend a chain hoist (Harbor Freight) and a 4X4 over the companion way.  Swing the engine fwd into the walk way on to 4X4 blocks to remove the bell housing and transmission.  Then reverse the process to reinstall.

A thought
Ron, Apache #788

RobertSchuldenfrei

#6
Hi Everyone,

Just a quick update.  Over the weekend we lifted the engine with a Come-A-Long suspended from a 4 by 4.  Although it had nothing to do with the gearbox, we found the two aft motor mounts needed rebedding.  We could find nothing wrong with the gearbox so we think that we had a cable adjustment issue.  The loud clunk we think was the Hurth 50 falling into neutral by itself at cruising speed.  Because we were missing a few seals we could not completely reassemble the engine.  We will do that on Saturday and test the engine and transmission slowly at first and then under normal conditions.  All of the work was done by Franco with assistance from Paul Alcock, owner of C34 #463.  Paul is pictured below with the bottom of the Come-A-Long.  I will post another update after our sea trials.

Cheers,

Bob
Robert Schuldenfrei
Esprit du Vent - #422

Stu Jackson

Glad to hear you're making progress.  How did you get the exhaust riser off without removing the HX?
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

RobertSchuldenfrei

Quote from: Stu Jackson on April 05, 2016, 09:31:30 AM
Glad to hear you're making progress.  How did you get the exhaust riser off without removing the HX?

Hi Stu,

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the HX?  Here is another view of the engine.

Bob
Robert Schuldenfrei
Esprit du Vent - #422

Stu Jackson

#9
Bob,

Engineer-speak for Heat Exchanger.  I've seen it just yesterday as HEX, but that confuses me with the shape of some fastener heads.  :D
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Ron Hill

Stu : You don't need to remove or even touch the HX to remove the engine.   :thumb:
Ron, Apache #788

Stu Jackson

Quote from: Ron Hill on April 06, 2016, 02:54:34 PM
Stu : You don't need to remove or even touch the HX to remove the engine.   :thumb:

My question was: How do you get the exhaust riser off without removing the HX?  I have never been able to get to the bottom stud/nut on the riser without removing the HX.
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Mike and Joanne Stimmler

I must have got lucky. I was able to get mine off although after many applications of PB Blaster and three days of starting the engine to heat things up. Never thought about the HX. Probably would have been easier.   :?
Mike and Joanne Stimmler
Former owner of Calerpitter
'89 Tall Rig Fin keel #940
San Diego/Mission Bay
mjstimmler@cox.net

Stu Jackson

#13
From my Tech Notes Online:

http://www.c34.org/mainsheet/html/2016/Muffler%20&%20Exhaust%20Riser%20Replacement.html

Exhaust Riser Removal Tips & Tricks: The hardest thing to do is get that bottom nut off the stud (even after soaking with PBBlaster; carefully mask the transmission to avoid any PBB getting on the seals). We had gone through this "bottom nut" difficulty in 2003 and again in 2008. I had given it a lot of thought and came up with this: While Morgan held a 9/16" box end wrench on the nut from below, I took a huge long one inch combo box/open end wrench from above and he held the open jaw of it on the end of the lower wrench while I hit it with a big hammer. Bingo! The nut came right off. Instead of trying to work that nut off from below, use two people and as much leverage as you can manage to work it off. Sockets and ratchets won't work on that nut because of the configuration of the exhaust riser and the connection to the manifold. That long wrench & hammer worked, right away.

I have always removed the HX to be able to even begin to get to that bottom nut.
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

RobertSchuldenfrei

Hi Forum Readers,

Success!  The gearbox problem was resolved, at least at slow speed.  We did not have to take off the HX (look at me, I speak engine-ese).  We were able to take the riser off with an end wrench.  However, we did remove the HX end caps (cover plate 299838) and when we replaced the starboard one we cracked the cover plate :(.  Since it is Saturday, I will have to wait until Monday to go to Sen-Dure Products, Inc. (www.sen-dure.com) for a replacement.

With a cracked cover plate, we were leaking sea water, so our test were not complete sea trials, but shifting at slow speed dockside.  We will have to wait a week for extensive sea trials at cruising speed to make sure it stays in gear.  Shifting is very smooth now so we are optimistic we found the problem.

As usual, thanks for the good advice.

Cheers,

Bob
Robert Schuldenfrei
Esprit du Vent - #422