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Author Topic: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested  (Read 47428 times)

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Jon W

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #255 on: April 13, 2016, 07:47:11 PM »

I'm not so curious to go buy expensive equipment that will rarely be used. When I compare the voltage at either battery to the voltage at the starter or alternator it is identical. So I have confidence in my crimps, and knowing I used the correct boat cable and lugs.

I didn't think to measure the resistance of each cable, but seems easy enough to do so I will start with that for the cables from battery to starter and battery to alternator.

Then run the engine and 1) measure between the alternator B+ and the house positive; 2) measure between the alternator B- and house negative per MaineSails steps.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 07:48:22 PM by Jon W »
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Jon W.
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mainesail

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #256 on: April 14, 2016, 08:24:18 AM »

I'm not so curious to go buy expensive equipment that will rarely be used. When I compare the voltage at either battery to the voltage at the starter or alternator it is identical. So I have confidence in my crimps, and knowing I used the correct boat cable and lugs.



Without current flowing this tells you nothing and should not add to or yield any confidence unless current was at or close to design max load & flowing when you take the measurement. Remember, there is NO VOLTAGE DROP with NO CURRENT FLOW...
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KWKloeber

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #257 on: April 14, 2016, 08:45:33 AM »

I'm not so curious to go buy expensive equipment that will rarely be used. When I compare the voltage at either battery to the voltage at the starter or alternator it is identical. So I have confidence in my crimps, and knowing I used the correct boat cable and lugs.


Without current flowing this tells you nothing and should not add to or yield any confidence unless current was at or close to design max load & flowing when you take the measurement. Remember, there is NO VOLTAGE DROP with NO CURRENT FLOW...

Jon,

Bring it on home - With no wind blowing, there's no friction on the shaft bearings of a wind turbine. 
When the wind blows -- the blades turn, and the friction is proportional to the speed.  If the wind never blows it all looks good, but it doesn't mean a dry bearing won't burn out when it does blow.

kk
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 08:46:09 AM by KWKloeber »
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Jon W

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #258 on: April 29, 2016, 06:40:41 PM »

In the final analysis -

The actuals were a little better than the estimates in the spreadsheet. For reference - the estimates used the standard resistance for the wire/cable gauge(s), and mainesails resistance estimate for each connection in the total circuit. I can check that off  :clap.

The SmartPlug is now installed with a new shore cable. I can check that off, safe at last  :clap.

I found my RACOR had a 2 micron filter element. I changed it to a 10 micron element. I can check that off   :clap

I completed the summary write-up for this whole project and posted in the Tech WIKI. I'm trying to get the name changed from the original placeholder. If interested in reading it (my apologies it's very long), you can find it under the Electrical category and is currently named - Electrical System Upgrade - Winter 2015-6 - A very thorough redesign of a Mark I system by Jon W, Della Jean

It contains text with 80 photos. Attached at the end are two Excel spreadsheets. The first spreadsheet has three tabs. A tab for the wire detail with wire ID#/gauge/color/length/terminal connections, etc; a tab with estimated voltage drop calculations; and a tab with the complete DC schematic of my new system. The second spreadsheet has a complete parts list of parts used, and from where with part numbers. I can check that off   :clap

Now I can go sailing on a short shakedown cruise (hopefully nothing goes wrong) Sunday. Let's see if I remember how to do it :shock:
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 06:51:03 PM by Jon W »
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Jon W.
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KWKloeber

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #259 on: April 30, 2016, 08:32:26 AM »

In the final analysis -

* The actuals were a little better than the estimates in the spreadsheet.

* I'm trying to get the name changed from the original placeholder.

* I found my RACOR had a 2 micron filter element. I changed it to a 10 micron element. I can check that off   :clap


Hey Jon,

Congratulations, especially on being SAFE now!

2 Q?s...   

When you say the actual losses are lower - what did you do to verify that?  Not for every cable/connection - I just mean "general procedure" to verify?

What did you switch from the "2u" Racor to "10u" Racor? 
I put those in " "  because neither are actually what Parker labels ('er I mean markets) them as.

Re the name change - what are you trying what to what? 
Also, you can link directly to the files, rather than to the page placeholder where you upload/revise the file(s).  (just saves a step)

Cheers
Ken
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Jon W

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #260 on: April 30, 2016, 04:25:50 PM »

Hi Ken,
I followed the steps mainesail listed earlier in this post.

Racor says not to use a 2 micron for the primary filter (with caveats about better water removal with 2 micron). I decided on 10 micron.

Re-name the name in the topics section from "Electrical System Upgrade - Winter 2015-6 - A very thorough redesign of a Mark I system by Jon W, Della Jean" to "1987 MK 1 Catalina 34 Electrical System Upgrade".
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Jon W.
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KWKloeber

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #261 on: April 30, 2016, 08:18:03 PM »

Hi Ken,
I followed the steps mainesail listed earlier in this post.

Racor says not to use a 2 micron for the primary filter (with caveats about better water removal with 2 micron). I decided on 10 micron.

Thanks Jon,

I'll have to look back - I think I missed that post of his.  I guess what I'm wondering is if and how you "synthesized" the peak amperages and how close the measured ended up being v. the design (considering the +/- accuracy of meter?   Were you close?

Interesting on the 2u - I hadn't realized Racor recommended against the 2u for marine.   A while ago I did a desk study of fuel filter efficiencies -- looking for the best final filter -- and asked mfgrs to supply their beta ratios (incl Racor because I wanted a comparison to the primary.)  It turned out that for all practical purposes, Racor's "2u" filter was really a "4u" filter.  It was rated 99% or better @ 4u, not @ 2u.  Wondering if I had misinterpreted something, I reached out to Parker engineering directly.  This was the reply:

From what I understand, the 2 micron branding on our filters is a leftover from pre NIST counting standards (from before Wally started here in 1981) and is more of a marketing name than a designation based on test data. –Parker Hannifin, Racor Division 8/8/2012 email.  I took that to mean "our marketing/branding is misleading."

Incidentally what I found, was that I couldn't buy a better final filter than Fleetguard -- what my local Kubota dealer had recommended (Fram was 2nd best.)


Cheers
Ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
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Jon W

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #262 on: May 01, 2016, 08:28:01 AM »

They recommend it for marine applications, but not as the primary filter element.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 08:29:37 AM by Jon W »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #263 on: May 06, 2016, 07:57:08 PM »

If interested in reading it (my apologies it's very long), you can find it under the Electrical category and is currently named - Electrical System Upgrade - Winter 2015-6 - A very thorough redesign of a Mark I system by Jon W, Della Jean

Jon,

I just edited the Electrical "page" and removed the link to this topic and included "Winter 2015-6..."  The link to your complete article works.
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britinusa

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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #264 on: May 07, 2016, 06:01:09 AM »

the 'Electrical Page' ??? Which one?

Paul
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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #265 on: May 07, 2016, 06:28:19 AM »

the 'Electrical Page' ??? Which one?


The one in the tech wiki:  http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Electrical

Jon's excellent article is right there.
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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #266 on: May 07, 2016, 05:44:43 PM »

Hi Stu,
      Thanks for the edit. A more complete title is better.
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Jon W.
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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #267 on: May 08, 2016, 06:47:53 AM »

the 'Electrical Page' ??? Which one?


The one in the tech wiki:  http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Electrical

Jon's excellent article is right there.

Thanks Stu.

Any chance the final wiring diagram could be included in the wiki article.

Paul
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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #268 on: May 08, 2016, 08:24:23 AM »

Any chance the final wiring diagram could be included in the wiki article.


It IS there.  You have to open the XLSX spreadsheet, it's in one of the tabs.
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Re: 1987 MK 1 Electrical System Upgrade - Feedback Requested
« Reply #269 on: May 08, 2016, 10:22:43 AM »

Reply #258 above I tried to describe what is in each of the two attachments. I put the schematic and wire detail in the same spreadsheet so all info is in one spot.

In talking to Ken just now, I'll add a pdf as a stand alone copy of the schematic. Keep in mind, you'll still need the Excel wire detail to cross reference the wire ID#'s, gauge, etc.. with the schematic.
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