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Author Topic: Steam in exhaust M35B  (Read 9001 times)

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Rortega46

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2016, 08:09:58 AM »

Ken:

I changed my SW to an OB last September, and have now enjoyed the C34 two summers having put about 300 hours on the M35B.  I am not not highly technical but will gladly share my experience. 

With the SW pump, motored 400 miles and 10-12 hour days from Houston to New Orleans in water temp of ~ 60. Noticable steam in the exhaust at 2,100 rpm.  Two summer trips to the gulf coast (7-10 hours /day) in water temp of ~85 with steam in the exhaust as well. 

With the OB pump, had two summer trips to the gulf coast with no noticeable difference in exhaust compared to the SW. 

I have not measured the exhaust water temp with either pump installed.  Bottom line ......steam in the exhaust appears to be the norm and with no overheating from OB diminished water flow, I plan to keep the OB.
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Randy & Karla Ortega
2001 MKII Hull # 1532 M35BC
S/V Yat
New Orleans, LA

Rortega46

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2019, 10:12:54 AM »

 I am looking back at this old post and wondering if I am being naive.  Should I plan on doing some routine /preventative maintenance to either the exhaust riser, anti-siphon valve, aqualift muffler, or exhaust hose?
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Randy & Karla Ortega
2001 MKII Hull # 1532 M35BC
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2019, 10:33:45 AM »

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Should I plan on doing some routine /preventative maintenance to either the exhaust riser, anti-siphon valve, aqualift muffler, or exhaust hose?

Ray, not naive at all.

The exhaust riser is rarely an issue because the water injection through the nipple is straightforward so rarely gets "clogged" or blocked.  What does happen is a failure at the weld, which you can visually inspect regularly.

Anti-siphon valve can be removed and cleaned and the rubber duck bill replaced if you suspect any failure.

Muffler usually fails at the ports, unless you use hump hose.  Otherwise no moving parts.

Exhaust hose usually has a shelf life.  If it leaks (air, soot) replace it.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Ron Hill

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2019, 02:19:25 PM »

Ray : Stu is correct that the most common exhaust failure (cracking and subsequent leaking) is that of the welded nipple in the exhaust riser.
 
I wrote a Mainsheet tech note article that pointed out that Catalina used a stuff wire reinforced hose between the anti syphon valve and that nipple in the MK I M25/XP & M35 exhaust configuration.  I believe that all engine vibrations were transmitted to the attached riser and then to that nipple - caused causing stress on that nipple weld and cracking. 
As there is no requirement (acute bend and exhaust water) to use a wire reinforced hose in that connection, I recommended using a softer nylon reinforced hose!!  This will help prevent premature cracking of that weld!!

Not too sure about the M35BC exhaust configuration?

A few thoughts

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Rortega46

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2019, 02:47:26 PM »

Stu & Ron, thanks for the informative and specific reply. Up to now I have been somewhat naive ignoring the exhaust system thinking Id fix it when it broke.  Better to know what to look out for and keep an eye on things, especially since I am planing to venture further from my home port than in the past.

Ill add the the following to my to do list for this winter and in the future.....
1. Remove, clean and inspect anti-siphon valve
2. Inspect welds on exhaust riser
3. Inspect muffler
4. Inspect exhaust hose
5. Inspect anti-siphon valve rubber duck bil
6. Replace or repair anything suspect from above inspections.  When replacing exhaust hose use nylon (not wire) reinforced hose.

Thanks again!
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2019, 03:49:35 PM »


6. Replace or repair anything suspect from above inspections.  When replacing exhaust hose use nylon (not wire) reinforced hose.

You're welcome, Ray.  Slight edit here:  You NEED EXHAUST hose for that exhaust, specifically made called "exhaust hose."  It IS wire reinforced.  From the muffler to the transom.

You need silicone reinforced hose from the exhaust riser metal tube to the muffler inlet.  This short piece is what we call HUMP HOSE.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 03:54:38 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Dale Stone

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2019, 12:51:27 PM »

All,
I love this org. It is very informative and sometimes amusing. I too have noticed some steam coming from my exhaust. Doesn't take much running to see it and because I can't see the actual exhaust output (I hate that about the C34II), I see a layer of steam on the water and hope there is water coming out. But as stated, the temperature is around 160F (I think) and never changes. I am new to this boat, 2001 C34II, and was going to dig into it next spring. I did change the impeller before launch, which was a PITA.

Mick,
The picture of the hose from heat ex-changer to riser was scary. I will definitely check mine. Do you think that was the reason for the steam?

Thanks

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Dale Stone 2001 C34 II, Hull #1526, Salem Ma

Ron Hill

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2019, 02:57:36 PM »

Dale : Where you are located, the outside temp and humidity are possibly such - that steam will form.

Otherwise it is not normal to have steam in the summer.  However, spring, fall and winter you'll probably see steam!!

A thought
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Dale Stone

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2019, 09:33:00 AM »

Hi Ron,
I'm in New England, Salem, Mass. Interesting thought, the ocean water here ranges from 60F to 70F during the sailing season.
I have to think about how that would work. I can imagine the 160F moist exhaust just over the 65F water condensing and creating a fog layer. Very clever!

Thanks
Dale
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Dale Stone 2001 C34 II, Hull #1526, Salem Ma

Mick Laver

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2019, 06:10:15 PM »

Hi Dale,
No, I don't think that occluded hose was the problem. I replaced all the hoses in the cooling system (fresh and raw) from the intake through-hull to the exhaust riser nipple and that was a "yikes why didn't I do this sooner?" moment. The steam issue began later when I swapped my Sherwood G-908 for an Oberdorfer N202-908.
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Mick and Sherrie Laver
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Mick Laver

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2020, 06:21:33 PM »

Hi all. I know this is an old post, but I want to close the loop as it were. To recap, I wanted to use the far superior Oberdorfer N202-908 raw water pump in favor of the M35B's "standard" Sherwood G-908. The Oberdorfer is better made and easier to service than the Sherwood, and there have been stories of catastrophic failures of the Sherwood. Kind of a no-brainer. However, I noticed when I swapped out the Oberdorfer for the Sherwood I started to see steam in my exhaust, which I attributed to insufficient cooling of the raw water due to the Oberdorfer's lower pumping flow rate.  I knew many people had swapped out the pumps on M25s so I thought it might be an artifact of the M35.

I had replaced all the hoses, both fresh and raw, and was using a newly boiled-out and refurbished HX, so the only explanation seemed to be the raw water pump. I settled into a routine where I'd use the Oberdorfer for day-to-day getting in and out of the slip day sailing, but if we were going to "go" anywhere (>25 nm say) I'd swap in the Sherwood. Boy am I good at swapping out raw water pumps.

So end of last summer after our 250nm circle to Catalina I prepared to take the HX in for cleaning and refurb. My one was installed in May 2009 by the PO, and it would be my third refurbishment. I thought "maybe it's time" and started looking at buying a new one. The Universal replacement (part 201027) is breathtaking ... over $800. However, the internets led me to a company called Go2Marine in Seattle that sells an American-made drop-in replacement for $396. Great quality of the HX, great support from the company.

And no steam in the exhaust with the Oberdorfer. As I mentioned, I did this all end of last year, but didn't want to post anything until I'd given the new HX a workout. We just finished our 250nm trip (with water temps up to 77deg F.) with the new HX and the Oberdorfer, and no issues.

So perhaps there's a limit to how often an HX can be boiled out and still be OK. I still think an inefficient HX and an Oberdorfer is a bad combination, but the problem is with the HX more than the pump.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 08:35:54 PM by Mick Laver »
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Mick and Sherrie Laver
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KWKloeber

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2020, 07:41:00 PM »

Hey Mick,

I'm glad to hear that it wasn't the Ob "pump's fault."   
We've discussed this before, but for the sake of other owners -- that mimicks what experience I've had with ALL other M25XPB and 35 and 35B owners that installed the Ob pump!!   

But I'm confused (have sold many Hxs for Universals over 20 years ) and hope you can clear up something.    Did you use the 201027 or the 201027CN?  The CN is for saltwater use; the 201027 **should be** for only freshwater use.  If Go2 sold you the non-CN it was in error.  I'd never sell or recommend a non-CN to a salt water customer.  A non-CN in saltwater is prone to premature failure.

I note on the Go2 site that the 201027 is $432.61 and the CN  version is $$504.33 -- unsure how you got such a god price! 

On the Hx itself - did it come thru "silver" painted, or gray as shown on the Go2 website (looks like a gray primer, although it could be an old photo.)

Ken

 

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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Mick Laver

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2020, 09:02:32 AM »

Hi Ken
It's gray, and the $396 is what I paid in August 2019. I guess the price has gone up.

WRT to the copper vs. copper/nickel tubing material, neither Go2Marine nor the manufacturer (Seakamp) make a seawater/freshwater distinction. I'd like more info about your reports of failure of the copper.

Thanks.
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Mick and Sherrie Laver
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KWKloeber

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2020, 08:44:12 PM »

Thanks for the info Mick

I've been going' 'round w/ Seakamp for several weeks now. 
I have 2 Hxs that are slightly corroded -- on one the paint is peeling, and I believe that corrosion has moved under the paint on the other.  It turns out that SK doesn't prep the metal at all -- the paint on one peels off if I scratch it -- i.e., the paint is not bonded to the tube underneath -- when it flakes off I can see that. 

So I'm interested why Go2's are gray -- SK admitted to me that it simply spritzes them with a "silver" rattle can.  Really?  In a marine environment?  I can't believe that someone with that history of making Hxs doesn't give a crap about the finish.  Anyway, I am still working thru this, so for now I'm simply suggesting caution t folks when it comes to Sk Hxs.

As far as CuNi, (it's on the iNet so it must be true right?), below:

https://www.go2marine.com/shop-all-categories/engine-parts/related-engine-parts/heat-exchangers  (bottom of page)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupronickel

https://www.copper.org/applications/marine/cuni/applications/seawater_system_design/heat_exchangers_piping/condenser_heat_exch_syst.html

https://www.mrcool.us/copper

https://www.paradisepoolandspa.com/how-to-choose-the-right-heat-exchanger-material/


-ken
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 07:37:36 PM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Stu Jackson

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Re: Steam in exhaust M35B
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2020, 09:33:16 AM »

...... SK admitted to me that it simply spritzes them with a "silver" rattle can.  Really?  In a marine environment?  I can't believe that someone with that history of making Hxs doesn't give a crap about the finish.  .......

I wouldn't care if they spritzed them purple.  It's in the back of the engine.  Who cares?

HXs are "not forever" items.  If the guts work, as they should, then I'm going to ask Seakamp (your 'SK') to do my next one in zebra stripes.  :D
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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