cushions, in winter, and how much pink to use?

[anaisdog]

thank you.  I will be doing the water system in the water, the engine, the yard is doing.  i forgot how long it takes to drain both of our water bladders so it didn't happen yesterday.  I didn't want to burn out the pump!  thanks for the advice, everyone.  i still haven't decided about the cushions.  it would be a PIA to get them down the ladder, in the winter but also, i'd hope this cover keeps the most dry and i can open the windows like other people have said. i have almost 6 gallons of pink to use (some from last year) so i won't be frugal! WM had it for $3.00

[Indian Falls]

You can't burn out your pump. It can run dry all day and only hurt your battery.  No worries. 

[anaisdog]

really?  i thought you had to worry about it!

[KWKloeber]

You can't burn out your pump. It can run dry all day and only hurt your battery.  No worries. 

The house water pump per se (and ditto for a bilge pump) won't burn out because it's not water lubricated.  However I doubt it has a continuous-duty rated motor, does it?

Ken

[anaisdog]

uh, no idea.  i just ran it for 15, stopped, ran again for 15, etc...  wasn't a big deal.  next year, i'm filling the tanks once, with water and bleach, draining, then only filling the smaller one.  no reason to fill both if i don't do overnights

[patrice]

Hi,

The house water pressure pump can run for a while without trouble.
I had filled my two tanks not long before we hauled out, and since we did not use as much water, the tanks were almost full.

We move the boat to another marina for winter storage, so while motoring, we simply open the faucet and let it empty the tanks.
Having the motor running doesn't affect the batteries.

[tommyt]

Why run it all through the faucet. Just disconnect at the pump and let the tanks drain into the bilge where the bilge pump will handle it as needed. After pulling the boat vacuum out any excess in the bilge and dry it.

[Stu Jackson]

Why run it all through the faucet. Just disconnect at the pump and let the tanks drain into the bilge where the bilge pump will handle it as needed. After pulling the boat vacuum out any excess in the bilge and dry it.

One pump or the other.   

Your boat, your choice.

[Solstice]

thank you.  I will be doing the water system in the water, the engine, the yard is doing.  i forgot how long it takes to drain both of our water bladders so it didn't happen yesterday.  I didn't want to burn out the pump!  thanks for the advice, everyone.  i still haven't decided about the cushions.  it would be a PIA to get them down the ladder, in the winter but also, i'd hope this cover keeps the most dry and i can open the windows like other people have said. i have almost 6 gallons of pink to use (some from last year) so i won't be frugal! WM had it for $3.00

Just another opinion on your cushions based on 25 years and 3 boats in Boston. Even though it is ideal to remove anything that can absorb moisture, it's often just not practical. Whether you use shrink wrap or a canvas cover also is somewhat of a factor. A canvas cover will minimize the greenhouse effect and allow relative humidity to be managed easier. However, with SW creating a chimney effect and installing vents in the SW can keep the interior dry.
We live in a Condo and now have innerspring mattresses, so we use a hybrid approach. We remove all of the smaller cushions (and all paper products, gear etc), but leave the bigger cushions and mattresses on board. We use a product called Hypervent under the mattresses year round and this effectively provides ventilation under the mattresses. We cover the mattresses with fleece blankets (won't absorb moisture like cotton) mostly for dust/dirt prevention and instead of propping the cushions up, I've found those cheap 'Frost King' pipe insulation noodles are great for putting under the cushions to provide air flow. I open up all drawers/cupboards/ access hatches and place a few noodles under any remaining cushions to provide airflow. I also make sure my bilge is bone dry (including removing antifreeze after winterizing). Leave an overhead and port hatch cracked open to provide equilibrium and interior is bone dry through the winter. The most difficult times are Fall and Spring when the temps tend to vary wildly. I've used a canvas cover for the last 4 seasons, and this also has made a big difference in managing condensation. Hope this helps and in the end you have to do what makes you most comfortable...

[Clay Greene]

I used -50 on the water system last year and I had two cracked fittings this Spring, one in the faucet at the galley and another in a head line.  Both were expensive to fix.  If you look at the ratings for the -50, it only provides freeze protection down to +12 Farenheit:

http://www.starbrite.com/category/pg-antifreeze-2

That might be fine in a "normal" winter in the Upper Midwest but I don't think it was sufficient last year.  I bought six gallons of -100, three for the raw water system on the engine, two for the potable water system, and one for the head.  Having read through Maine Sail's post, I may buy some -50 to run through the engine first before I finish up with the -100.    This may be overkill but antifreeze is cheap and I would rather err on the side of caution. 

We also use a hybrid approach on the cushions.  We take the cushions off and leave the mattresses on board.

[Footloose]

I will testify that going from shrink wrap to canvas makes a huge reduction in moisture/mold.

[mainesail]

I used -50 on the water system last year and I had two cracked fittings this Spring, one in the faucet at the galley and another in a head line.  Both were expensive to fix.  If you look at the ratings for the -50, it only provides freeze protection down to +12 Farenheit:

http://www.starbrite.com/category/pg-antifreeze-2

That might be fine in a "normal" winter in the Upper Midwest but I don't think it was sufficient last year.  I bought six gallons of -100, three for the raw water system on the engine, two for the potable water system, and one for the head.  Having read through Maine Sail's post, I may buy some -50 to run through the engine first before I finish up with the -100.    This may be overkill but antifreeze is cheap and I would rather err on the side of caution.  

We also use a hybrid approach on the cushions.  We take the cushions off and leave the mattresses on board.

The problem was most likely caused by dilution. What comes out of the faucet must match exactly what went in. In order to burst (not freeze) with -50F AF that IS NOT DILUTED it needs to get really cold.

In every instance of freeze failures I have repaired the tested AF in the system was diluted...

The vessel I winterized today, a Grand Banks, took 13 gallons for the engine and 4.5 through the fresh water plumbing. This is with a bypassed water heater and no AF in the water tank.. Samples were measured exhaust at all faucets, the shower, wash downs & cockpit shower until they came out undiluted..

Just be happy sailboats like the C-34 are pretty simple. This was a 4 case boat by the time I finished the sanitation, AC and bilge systems....

[anaisdog]

so for a Michigan winter, is -60 for engine good enough?  if not, I'll get the -100.

[KWKloeber]

so for a Michigan winter, is -60 for engine good enough?  if not, I'll get the -100.

becki!!  You've been playing hooky from class!!

  -50 has freeze protection to like + (plus!!!) 15F 
-100 has freeze protection to like - (minus) 60F 

Those are UNDILUTED!
http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Selecting-Antifreeze

If you think in wildest thought that -60 pink stuff would come even close to what a MI winter requires, AND it won't get diluted one iota when running it through, and the chance of freeze damage is worth the savings between the two -- use it!  Your boat, your choice (I LOVE that saying).

As I said on the "other" forum, test it when you run it through and see pure pink (you will be surprised that it won't test as near as low as its undiluted rating.)

Besides, I thought you weren't doing the cooling system - the yard was?

ken

[KWKloeber]

BTW,

Any mates checking the protection level of their pink stuff, MAKE SURE you use a tester or strips specifically for polypropylene glycol.

http://www.amazon.com/Thexton-THE100-Anti-Freeze-Tester/dp/B000P72I5S
http://www.amazon.com/Thexton-THE107-Anti-Freeze-Tester/dp/B0002SRDQO
http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Trak-311519-Coolant-Testing-Strips/dp/B000MIUJMO


Ken