Catalina smile?

[ghebbns]

Hi all,
Took the cover off Sabbatica today  . During my inspection, I found a small (maybe 4 inches) crack along the top of the port side keel.  Nothing on the starboard side. See picture below.  My thoughts are that this is the dreaded catalina smile.  Thoughts?  If so, what do people suggest for fixing?
I have a new cradle and am wondering if there is not enough support of the front of the keel.  The yard jammed in a block underneath the keel to provide additional support (see picture 2).  Should this be sufficient?  Any better way to support the keel?

Thanks for the reading.

Greg

[Stu Jackson]

Without seeing a picture that shows the bottom of the hull and the start of the keel, my initial impression is that is much lower than the standard Catalina Smile.

It looks more like a hard grounding.

If you do a simple search on "Catalina Smile" you'll find a great writeup by one of our skippers who documented the entire process of dropping his keel completely.

Others have reported on how they repaired the smile in place.  My yard dug out the area around the crack, filled it in, and painted it over, then retorqued the bolts, which is the usual fix.

[Ron Hill]

Greg : Yup! That's what happens when there is not enough weight on the nose of the keel - on land.  The rear of the boat with the engine and full fuel tank is heavier and tends to rotate down separating the keel from the hull.
Next time have them put more weight on the nose and have the rear pads of the cradle take more hull weight!!  also sounds that you need more hull weight on the starboard side.

You can cut that crack area out and refill it with epoxy paste, but I hate to tell you that the crack will probably be there next haul out and for years after!  Just watch the yard's blocking!!

A thought

[lazybone]

I've have only ever supported but the first two feet at the very nose of the keel.  The rest hangs free.

Fingers crossed and I've never had the dreaded crack.

[pablosgirl]

Greg,

I am with Stu's opinion.  This looks too low on the keel and the crack is too irregular for the typical Catalina smile. Looking at that crack I would say it was caused by a hard grounding.  You might want to inspect the hull just aft of the end of the keel for cracks there.  A hard frontal hit on the keel would cause separation at the front of the keel and compression at the aft end of the keel.

[ghebbns]

Thanks for the replies.  Last year was my first year with the boat and I certainly did not have any groundings.  The crack was not there when I put the boat in last summer.  I don't recall seeing it when the boat was pulled in the Fall (but I wasn't really looking).  Is it possible that a crack from a hard hit could take a year to show itself?

Greg

[Indian Falls]

I bet you find your keel bolts were never periodically snugged up. In combo with the back edge of the keel bearing weight and maybe, way too much backstay tension...  Unless you have water leaking up the keel bolt holes, I would smear some epoxy in there in there and paint over it.  Search keel bolts. Plenty more info there.

[Stu Jackson]

Dan knows what he's talking about.  He is the skipper who graciously documented his great work on his keel.  You can read about it here (from a simple search on "Catalina Smile"

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6842.0.html

[Ron Hill]

Greg : That crack is a bit lower than the normal Catalina smile, but I doubt it is a crack in the lead keel itself.  
Any grounding severe enough to cause a crack/break in the keel casting I do believe would leave some severe marks in the soft lead where the grounding occurred!!

Maybe it's just a crack in the epoxy coating that the factory put on the entire keel and keel to hull joint!!  

In any case I'd do a epoxy patch and not worry about it unless you get some other symptoms - like water in the bilge?  

I get a kick out of the yard "tapping" in a wedge and trying to lift 14000lbs.  If they tried to drive it another 1/4" the wooden wedge will split!

[lazybone]

Its impossible to tell where the crack is based on those two photos.

The pictures do not show the crack and its relation to  either the keel/ hull turn or the bottom edge of the keel.

But its a fair bet its the keel joint.

[Ken Juul]

Won't be able tell what it is until you get down to bare metal.  Start stripping.  I don't think it is a smile, but since the boat is on the hard check the keel bolts anyway, should be torqued to about 105 ftlbs.  May have to manufacture or borrow a socket.  Do a search for details.  Keep investigating and informing.  This maybe something new....doesn't happen very often, but does occasionally.

[Clay Greene]

That's just fairing compound over the lead keel in that location. Weight imbalance could have caused that to flex and crack. Or it could be water got in and expanded when it froze with the cold winter. In either case, it is almost certainly cosmetic.  Lead is inert and will not rust. If it bothers you, grind it out down the bare metal, metal prime, apply epoxy fairing compound and repaint.  I just fixed about a dozen of those sorts of spots on our keel this spring.

[ghebbns]

Thanks again for all the suggestions.  I had a chance to get down to the boat and take some more pictures with measurements.  The crack is approximately 6 inches below the hull and 9 inches down the front edge of the keel.  Does this provide more info to help determine if this is on the keel stub?

Thanks,

Greg

[Ron Hill]

Guys : FYI, The torque for the keel nuts is 107ft lbs

[Carolina Soul]

I have dealt with the Catalina Smile on my 30 for 10 years and now on my 34.  Yours looks like a Catalina Smile to me.  I just hauled mine Monday and intend to attack the smile tonight.  I plan to dremel the crack a bit to get a clean edge, then putting "G-Flex" epoxy paste into the crack and fair it.  I expect it will not go away, I just treat it each haul-out (every two years) and have never had problems other than the aesthetics of the crack.