Loose wiring conduit in mast

[pablosgirl]

After a lively sail in the Gulf of Mexico in 4 to 6 foot seas and 18 knots of wind, we tucked into an anchorage behind Matagorta island.  It wasa little rolls and inward some thing banging around inside the mast.  Was hard to sleep with all that banging and lancing going on.  In the morning I started investigating.  I found that by looking through the variouse halyard entry/exit openings in the mast I could see Avery conduit moving around and the banging coincided with the movement of the conduit.  I also noticed that there are aluminum pop rivets along the forward port side of the mast.  I presume the these we're used to fasten the conduit to the inside of the mast.  I am assuming that old age, corrosion, and all those waves in the gulf caused a few of those rivets to let go. 

The question I have for all of you is how do I go about reattaching the conduit, preferably without pulling the mast.  Has any one noted what kind of clamp goes around the conduit? A picture would be great.   Anyone about to pull their boat and un step their mast for the winter, be willing to post some pictures?

[Ron Hill]

Paul : I hate to tell you, but I believe that you are in for pulling the mast to fix/resecure that conduit.  I've had my mast down and believe the pop rivets are just thru the mast and into the PVC conduit.

My thought

[Dave Spencer]

Paul,
I too have that problem.  I pulled the mast last weekend for the winter (haulout already next weekend )  With the mast on horses, I checked the conduit and it is loose.  The sound it made when I rattled it sounded like most of the rolly nights that we've had at anchor for the last couple of years.  I didn't notice any rivets along the mast but I'll check again tomorrow when I'm up to the boat.  I've got until next spring to come up with a fix so I won't do anything hasty until I research this a bit more and hopefully others will weigh in with their solutions.

[Stu Jackson]

The best description I've seen about how to attach conduit to a mast is in Don Casey's book This Old Boat.  I've never researched it on the internet.

[pablosgirl]

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the reply.  If you could take a picture looking up the mast and post it that would be most helpfully.

Stu, thanks for the reference to Don Casey.  I have the book at home and when we get back home from our cruse down the Texas coast I will read that part.

Ron, I can't imagine the rivets go right into the conduit otherwise any wire pulled through the conduit would hang up.  Unless the rivets did not go all the way to the inside of the conduit and that may explain why it came loose.  Three years ago when we put the boat back together after hurricae Ike, I ran a new wind instrument cAble through the conduit using the old cable as a pull string.  Had very little trouble doing that.

To lessen the noise, I have fished a coat hanger around the conduit through one of the jib halyard entry/exit ports and pulled the conduit tight against the inside of the mast. The conduit still slaps the mast some so the attachment point near the top must also be loose.

[ken003]

Here is a pic of mine looking in the base.  Like Ron said, pop rivets go directly through the conduit.  You can just see one out of focus at the very bottom.  The rib along the right side is the sail track.

Ken

[efhughes3]

As noted, pop rivets will be semi-flush, so Ron's description is accurate. I'm conserving if you couldn't make some "question mark" shaped hooks, and feed them in the rivet holes for a temp restraint? Maybe alum or S/S welding rod. Not sure the diameter of the holes, however.

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the reply.  If you could take a picture looking up the mast and post it that would be most helpfully.

Stu, thanks for the reference to Don Casey.  I have the book at home and when we get back home from our cruse down the Texas coast I will read that part.

Ron, I can't imagine the rivets go right into the conduit otherwise any wire pulled through the conduit would hang up.  Unless the rivets did not go all the way to the inside of the conduit and that may explain why it came loose.  Three years ago when we put the boat back together after hurricae Ike, I ran a new wind instrument cAble through the conduit using the old cable as a pull string.  Had very little trouble doing that.

To lessen the noise, I have fished a coat hanger around the conduit through one of the jib halyard entry/exit ports and pulled the conduit tight against the inside of the mast. The conduit still slaps the mast some so the attachment point near the top must also be loose.

[Ron Hill]

Paul : Even if you have the mast down, I'm not too sure what to tell you on how to reinstall new pop rivits?!?
 
I'm not to sure how it was originally manufactured ??  They must have some way to hold/press the conduit against the inside wall of the mast as they drilled and installed the pop rivets!?!  Let me keep on thinking about the "how to"?   

Thoughts, but no solution

[efhughes3]

A long piece of flatbar, EMT or tube, run through the conduit as a "strong back" could keep the conduit against the mast as they sequentially drill and rivet, during original manufacturing.

Paul : Even if you have the mast down, I'm not too sure what to tell you on how to reinstall new pop rivits?!?
 
I'm not to sure how it was originally manufactured ??  They must have some way to hold/press the conduit against the inside wall of the mast as they drilled and installed the pop rivets!?!  Let me keep on thinking about the "how to"?  

Thoughts, but no solution

[Ron Hill]

Paul : Ed has the ultimate solution on how to hold that PVC conduit(tubing) in place while you drill out the old pop rivets and install new ones.

You've got to pull the mast and might want to try this. 
Get the mast on sawhorses.  The get a 20 ft long 2x8 which you might need to plane some off to fit.  Shove it in from the bottom leaving enough to grab to pull it out.  It should wedge itself to hold the PVC in place.  Remove and replace the old rivets - new holes? your option.  Then remove the mast cap and do the same from the top of the mast.  Don't forget to get new BB sheaves from Garhauer to replace the old ones.  You might want to look at and replace the old wiring - anchor light/VHF/Hinkley TV antenna/deck/steaming light. Check the goose neck on the boom.  Might even think of a new paint job if you are so unfortunate (like me) to have a painted mast&boom!

A few thoughts, Good Luck 

[efhughes3]

I like Ron's idea on the 2x8 as a wedge against the conduit.

[pablosgirl]

I have been doing some internet research on this and through a Google search on "attaching wire conduit inside mast", I came up with the follwoing links that were helpfull:
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/archive/index.php/t-83549.html  - The last entry by Moody Buccaneer was particularly good.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/73532-electrical-wires-inside-mast-making-much-noise.html - The last entry by GaryHLucas was a good idea on using fom blocks to wedge the conduit into place again.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/installing-a-conduit-in-an-aluminum-mast-61324.html - the third entry by Beausoleil explains how to add a conduit to a mast and the sixth by cwyckham explains how to repair a loose attachment point.  Looking at my mast one of the attachment points has two rivets 2" appart horizontally, which explains that this may have happened before and was repaired.  This thread also mentions using alloy clamps to hold the conduit to the mast.  But this might need the mast off the boat to get this to work.

I plan to try to re-attach the conduit at the double rivet point this weekend and I will post the results.  I will first drill out both rivets and then use a stiff wire bent into a "j" hook and feed that through the hole that is off center from the line of rivets going up the mast.  I will then pull the conduit against the mast with the j hook and try to place a pop rivet into the second hole and into the conduit.  Probably sounds easier that it will be to execute on a standing mast.  But, nothing ventured nothing gained.  And I really don't want to pull the mast this year.

Paul

[2ndwish]

Sorry to dredge up an old topic, but we too have this problem and would like to tackle it with the mast up. Paul- Did you ever have success with your technique?

[mregan]

I had this same issue last season.  In one of the spare halyard openings I was able to stick a large screwdriver into the halyard opening and force the conduit against the front of the mast.  By doing this it stopped the banging so I knew if I could attach something at this point it would work for me.
I inserted the screwdriver again to force the conduit to the mast.  While holding the conduit in place, I drilled a small hole in the mast and conduit.  Once I felt the drill bit go through the mast, I slowed it down a bit while going through the PVC conduit.  I didn't want to drill into the wiring.  Once the hole was drilled, I inserted a screw into the hole.  I filed down end of the screw so there wasn't a pointy end rubbing against the wiring.  Has worked so far.  Someday when I drop the mast I'll fix it better but it works for now.

[Dave Spencer]

mregan
Sounds like a great temporary solution.  You had good luck by not damaging any wiring inside the conduit.  If you eventually drop the mast to finish the job, I did this last spring and wrote it up here.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7170.15.html
The halyard openings are key to a positive result with the mast down too.