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Author Topic: engine not starting....  (Read 9984 times)

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RonE

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engine not starting....
« on: July 24, 2012, 10:34:53 PM »

Having Mary Gee for about two weeks now, I was all set to practice my docking and go out for a sail this afternoon, but my engine wouldn't start. I had a great sail this past Sunday, coming across from the Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey back over to my Marina in Brooklyn. The ocean was still rolling out some nice 7 foot rollers and the boat felt great. I started the engine with no problem just before coming into port.
Today though it appears to me along with my two buddies, that she was starving for fuel. I always did a pretty good job bleeding my one lunger on my cape dory 27, but the M25XP universal was a bit more complicated.
I read thru lots of notes and previous postings for the last two hours or so, but the one thing I am lacking is a good drawing or sketch of the M25XP, I have a basic manually, the illustrations are not very detailed.
Where exactly is the air bleed plug on the fuel filter.
I believe I have a self bleed return valve, which I opened to check for a fuel stream, however i always closed it before i attempted to start.
We loosened up the hose going to the injector, And yes one of my buddies did loosen one of the injectors...   Both fuel filters were recently replaced and I added twenty gallons of diesel.
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BillG

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 05:15:35 AM »

If your diesel tank has never been cleaned, it doesn't take too many rolling waves to clog up a brand new filter.  Try changing out the filters again and see if this solves the problem.  If so, looks like it's time to drain and clean fuel tank.  I know because I had this problem when I first bought my boat.  What sizes are each of your filters.
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Bill
Rock Hall, MD

Ken Juul

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 05:20:08 AM »

Not to offend, but because you are a new owner, I'll start with the basics.  The engine must have worked fine during the delivery, they don't usually stop working without a reason.  So I'll assume you don't know the proper procedures to start the engine?  Thru hull open, oil level checked.  OK, time to start the engine.  Key on, buzzer sounding.  Hold key clockwise against the spring to power the glow plugs (Unless engine has been recently run and temp is over 100).  Hold key for 20-30 seconds (10-15 if you have a glow plug selenoid). Release spring pressure, push the start button.  Engine should start right up.  Check for water out of exhaust.

Also be aware of the note, more than 30 seconds of cranking without starting will cause the muffler to fill with water.  Continued cranking may cause the water to back up into the engine causing water lock or other damage.  If you have been cranking the engine alot, make sure you drain the muffler.  

Also make sure your helpful friends have everything put back together correctly :)
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Ken & Vicki Juul
Luna Loca #1090
Chesapeake Bay
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Jim Hardesty

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 05:33:13 AM »

Along with Ken's line of thought.  Double check the engine shut-off.  Does the cables work right?
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

patrice

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 07:08:27 AM »

 Key on, buzzer sounding.  Hold key clockwise against the spring to power the glow plugs (Unless engine has been recently run and temp is over 100).  Hold key for 20-30 seconds (10-15 if you have a glow plug selenoid). Release spring pressure, push the start button.  Engine should start right up.  Check for water out of exhaust.


Hi,

quick question, since I'm new to diesel engine since this summer, when starting, I'm holding key for about 20 sec. and push the starter button while still holding the key.
Should I release key before ??
And how to check if there is a solenoid ?

thanks
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Patrice
1989 MKI #970
TR, WK, M25XP
   _/)  Free Spirit
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scotty

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 07:08:56 AM »

Hi Ron.  The good news is that it's probably somthing easy.  If all the above dosen't work it might be a strainer in the fuel tank (which is suggested to be removed).  There are several links dealing with bleeding the system here on the website.  Good luck!
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Scotty

wind dancer

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 08:30:10 AM »

Also check the wiring for loose grounds, especially the engine panel wiring in the cockpit.
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Jay Guard, 1996 Catalina 380, #3, "Aquila", Seattle

Clay Greene

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 12:39:02 PM »

How recently were the fuel filters changed?  If it was immediately before you have had this problem, I would think it is a air bubble in the fuel line.  The bleed valve is on the starboard side of the engine but farther toward the bow than the fuel filter.  It is about six inches above the oil dipstick and maybe four inches forward.  Open the bleed valve and have someone turn the ignition key to energize the fuel pump and pressurize the system without starting the engine. 

Here is a link to an online version of the M25XP engine manual, which has diagrams:

http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/universal/200157/universal-owners-manual-m25xp-specifications.html

Look at the top image on the right hand side for the bleed valve. 

You don't have to keep the ignition switch turned while you start the engine.  The manual suggests that you can do this in cold weather if you are having trouble getting the engine to start.  30 seconds is usually the minimum I can energize the glow plug to get the engine to turn over, usually in warm weather.  I often will need to give it another 15 seconds or so and/or will need to increase the throttle a bit.

Good luck!
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1989, Hull #873, "Serendipity," M25XP, Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Footloose

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 01:14:29 PM »

If you add the solenoid modification to the glow plug circuit you will cut down the time to 8-10 seconds befroe the engine will start. :clap
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Dave G.
"Footloose"
Hull# 608  1988 Tall Rig/Fin Keel
Malletts Bay, VT- Lake Champlain

Clay Greene

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 03:22:18 PM »

Good idea - it is on the list. 
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1989, Hull #873, "Serendipity," M25XP, Milwaukee, Wisconsin

Ron Hill

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2012, 05:42:52 PM »

RonE : You do NOT have a self bleed system with the bleed valve closed.  I recommend that you crack the bleed valve OPEN about 1/4 turn and then you have a self bleed system.

There was no need to loosen an injector!  You didn't mention if you were getting fuel with the key ON and the fuel line partially off the injection pump or at the injector? 

Suggestion -- You are going to have to start at the tank and work thru each item the fuel should go through to make sure that fuel is really (finally) getting to the injector.   A few thoughts
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Ron, Apache #788

Stu Jackson

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2012, 08:23:45 PM »

Ron, don't know if you've had a chance to wander around this website, but there's tons of engine information on the C34 Tech wiki (just click on the link at the top of each of these pages), including links to the manuals, in addition to the www.marinedieseldirect.com link (which you should bookmark).

Your issues seem to be either the bad ground syndrome or a loose fuse/fuseholder from the key switch to the starter solenoid (cleverly located under the alternator!).

I know there's tons of info on this website, hence that particular topic sticky on this board.

If you haven't yet, please read or re-read the CRITICAL UPGRADES topic, which has items that will answer your question.  You may also be interested in the "101 Topics" sticky, too.

Good luck, and it is interesting to note for you that we have ALL been there and are here to help.

Please keep us posted.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 08:27:14 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Mike and Joanne Stimmler

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2012, 07:19:02 AM »

RonE, is the engine turning over at a normal speed when you are trying to start it or is it sluggush? If sluggish, it could be the ground issue at the engine block. Also make sure your throtle is advanced a little when trying to start.

Mike
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Mike and Joanne Stimmler
Former owner of Calerpitter
'89 Tall Rig Fin keel #940
San Diego/Mission Bay
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RonE

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2012, 09:53:02 AM »

Thanks for all the responses.
I have taken her out about 6 times,
The engine started with no problem, each time,
Since Tuesday I have not been able to start, I have repla.                (ced
The secondary filter, and bleed the system properly a number of
Times.  I and a number of sailors say she is starving for fuel. It
Appears to have a good flow up to the hose that feeds into the injector.
When the engine ran before Tuesday it sounded fine. 
If there was a grounding issue wouldn't I get no juice at all.
Ron
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Les Luzar

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Re: engine not starting....
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2012, 10:21:13 AM »

Is your engine cranking with force when you try to start? If you had a grounding issue, It may crank sometimes, and not crank other times. Or it may crank slowly. Grounding issues could cause intermittant starting problems.
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Les Luzar
#355    1987
Windshadow
Long Beach, CA
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