Adding new line stoppers to cabin top

scotty · May 12, 2012, 10:11:04 PM

I'm in the process of running the reefing lines back to the cockpit. I'm using a double line system (a seperate line for the tack and the clew) which means bringing back four lines into the cockpit. I've put cheek blocks on the boom and blocks to lead the lines to deck organizers. By the way, I used nice roller bearing blocks to minimize friction (yikes, they're expensive!). I added a stack of organizers to the top of the existing organizers (no new holes in the deck), and then ran the lines into the new line stoppers (Surelock FTS) which I am mounting next to the existing line stoppers. In fact I have hollowed out space for them out of the companion-way teak, as well as making a new pad for the starboard outboard stopper.
The existing holes for the existing hardware are just drilled to size for the bolts. They are not oversize, filled with epoxy, then redrilled to a smaller hole. That's how it came out of the factory, and there is no water damage or delamination issues that I can tell. This area is also very well protected by a dodger. So that brings me to my question:

Do you think that I should just drill and bolt the new line stoppers on (bedding them with butyl and counter-sinking the hole a bit to allow a "bowl" for the butyl)? Or should I do the oversize, epoxy, smaller size hole method? Is there a foam core at this part of the cabin top? Is delamination an issue at this portion of the cabin top?

Thanks,

Scotty

Stu Jackson · May 13, 2012, 09:07:54 AM

Scotty, if you have the epoxy method down pat, do that. But if you have a dodger, the butyl alone will work just fine.

Ron Hill · May 13, 2012, 02:28:12 PM

Scotty : I'd recommend that you drill and use butyl rubber to seal the holes. I believe that you need the strength of a bolt rather than epoxy.

BTW, the core of the cabin deck is 3/4" - 1" marine grade plywood. So it's solid stuff as compared to balsa. Good Luck !

Dave Spencer · May 13, 2012, 06:14:07 PM

Scotty,
Take lots of pictures please. I'd like to try something similar to our boat maybe next year.

Stu Jackson · May 18, 2012, 11:27:41 AM

Here are ours. Second reef clew, first reef clew, second reef tack

Stu Jackson · May 18, 2012, 11:28:03 AM

and mainsheet, first reef tack, main halyard

Meerkata · May 23, 2012, 07:51:47 AM

This question mostly for Stu...
What are the modifications needed to boom, to move to a two-line reef system.
Thanx,
Jim
Meerkat, 2003, sail 1649

Stu Jackson · May 23, 2012, 08:09:29 AM

Jim, when we bought our boat in 1998 it already had the double line reefing system installed. The clew lines were run inside the boom with slits cut in the bottom of the boom up forward to run down and aft, and also slits near the aft end to connect to the two cheek blocks on a track on the starboard side of the boom. The tack lines connect to cleats on the mast, go up through the tack cringles and then are led aft.

If I was doing it from scratch, I'd face the choice of running them internally or just externally on the outside of each side of the boom through small eye straps.

See the tech wiki: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Reefing

waterdog · May 23, 2012, 01:32:09 PM

One thing to think about is using jam cleats for your tack lines. It saves space, weight, money and time. You drop the halyard a little past your mark, pull your tack lines tight and jam them in the cleats, tension the luff with the halyard through the clutch on the winch to your mark. We have that arrangement and it works great.

scotty · May 25, 2012, 02:51:11 PM

OK, Job is (almost) done. I now have a two line system to run my reefing (two reefing points) to the cockpit. This required adding a bunch of stuff. Let's see if I can attach some pictures:
OK, that seems to work.

The line-stoppers are the two inboard and outboard of the existing line stoppers - see the arrows?. Now, instead of having two on each side, I have four. The inboard set I had to chisel out some teak (which kind of freaked me out) but it went OK. I just did it slowly and did small amounts at a time. The outboard port stopper just fit on top the the existing block. For the outboard starboard stopper, I had to make a new block. I went to a hardwood lumber place and bought a piece (12x2x4) of teak and cut it to size. It was a tricky cut (4 compound cuts), but it came out OK. I did however make an error: There is a gap. When I dry fitted it and it was right on. Then when I final-bolted it (really tight with butyl bedding compound) it pulled to the starboard! Grrrr.. It left a gap (about 1/16") which I filled with cellulose wood filler. It has left a line, but is water-tight. Oh well. In the next post I'll add some details about the reefing system.

scotty · May 25, 2012, 03:09:01 PM

To bring the lines aft to the cockpit I needed to make a new path: Cheek-block on the outboard end of the boom (port side only), cheek-blocks on the inboard (forward) end of the boom (both sides) to turning blocks (one port, one starboard) at the base of the mast. For the clew lines, the turning blocks (one port, one starboard) are mounted on the top of the fitting which keeps the deck from hogging. That's the fitting that goes to the turn-buckle on the inside of the cabin connecting the mast to the deck. I bought some stainless tangs, bent them and put them on the nuts at the deck. It works. The tack line runs from a fitting on the mast, up to the eye on the sail (one line for the first set of points, one for the second) and back to the turning blocks. The turning blocks for the tack I mounted next to (between) the existing turning blocks at the base of the mast . I put on a 4" stainless bolt (with a sure-lock nut) and just put them on. All the blocks are Harken roller-bearing. I spent a bit extra, but felt that the friction savings were worth it.

Oh yeah, did you notice the cam cleat on the base of the mast? Since I was doing so many taps anyway, I put that cleat on. Now, when I'm by myself I can raise the main (the main halyard) at the mast, cleat it down on the cam cleat, and then walk back to the cockpit and pull the halyard in, put it on the winch and tighten it up (which pops it off of the cam cleat). Sweet!

scotty · May 25, 2012, 03:38:27 PM

OK, almost done. How to get the lines from the base of the mast to the cockpit? Had to add some organizers. Easy. I bought two new ones and bolted them on top of the existing ones. On the starboard side I also raised it up 1/2" by adding a shim of plastic (cutting board from Ross for Less) under the bottom organizer. The new organizers make the old ones look bad, so at some future date I'll replace the old ones.

It was too windy to put the sail up for these pictures (or I'm just a little lazy) but if you look you might tell that the lazy jacks hold the new reef lines from falling down off the boom. When I get around to it, I'm going to rivet some eyes on the boom to keep the new (clew) lines neat.

You might notice a small line running through a pad eye I put on the top of the port organizer. This is the lazy jack line. I can adjust the lazy jacks from the cockpit also. (I've never used it!)

Stu has three to port and three to starboard. I have four each. Why? I also lead the topping lift aft, and the genny halyard.

So now I can reef the first or second reef from the cockpit. Very useful when your single-handing, or if you just don't want to bounce around on the cabin top in wet weather!

Stu Jackson · May 25, 2012, 05:17:30 PM

Scotty, nice work and great pictures. Maybe I should have mentioned this before: I have both clew reefing lines on clutches next to each other. To reef when sailing, we head up closehauled on the jib, and drop the main with the traveler. I drop the main halyard to a premarked spot, and then pull both clew lines together to a premarked spot on the first reef clew line, and then cinch the first reef clew line with the winch. This makes sure that the second reef clew line doesn't get caught out around the boom. I generally ignore the tack lines until the clews are done.

Very often I'll reef before I go out, you know the old saw...but when you need to reef when you're already out, that's what I do.

Know you'll love it, enjoy.

scotty · May 25, 2012, 07:25:16 PM

Thanks Stu, as usual you give me something to think about.

There is an interesting article on the Pinapple Sails website about reefing with double lines. It was one of the reasons I decided to stay with that system. It makes a case for doing the tack line first - to avoid pulling the slugs off/out. You might find it interesting.

Stu Jackson · May 25, 2012, 07:38:39 PM

Scotty, good point. We have the Harken track cars on our main, so some of my "techniques" may need modification.

In that event, though, the first reef tack is easy to do, whenever you do it. Don't worry about the second reef tack, it ain't goin' anywhere, and you can do it at your leisure.