Asym Spinnaker mast head modifications

[Roc]

Hi All,
I'm interested in getting an Asym Spinnaker and have been gathering information.  Went to local sail loft and talked about what was needed at the mast head.  I was told that the extra halyard on my mast (does anyone has a picture of the top of the mast to confirm) is really a spare jib halyard and not a spinnaker halyard, because it's not outside the foretriangle, above the headstay.  What I was told is I need to cut into the mast, about 3-5 feet down from the top and install an exit plate.  Run this halyard through it and up through a block on the bail (again, not really sure I have a bail up there).  This will place it above the existing jib halyard, above the headstay.  The loft said don't let anyone tell you to just run it up from the sheeve to a block on the bail because things can get messy up there if you do.

Also, is using a sock really helpful, or are they overrated?  The ATN sock is not that cheap and I'm researching that cost compared to those small furlers, wondering if a furler is worth the upcharge.  My local loft says a sock is good enough and is talking me out of a furler.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[catalinamike]

I have my asym spinnakker for sale.  Let me know if you have any interest.  The sail is in like new condition used less than 10 times.  Sorry I don't have any pics right now.

The sail was made by UK Sailmakers in Marina Del Rey.  It is 1.5 oz material.  The colors are blue, green, and white.  they match my bootstripe  [ catalina original ].  I am including the sock, single sheet, turning block and line to adjust the height and position of the tack,  and its control lines, and an Atn tacker to attach the tack to your furled headsail.

I would like to net  $1200 after shipping.  The new cost is about  $2800.

[Jim Hardesty]

Roc,
My 2001 with furling main came with a messenger line to run a spinnaker halyard and a plate with holes on the mast head to attach a block.  I haven't run one yet, it's on the list.  But, I do fly my a-spinnaker with my 2nd jib halyard.  It works, not as well, but if you don't use the spinnaker often it will do.  Socks work well, but I have never seen one set up to douse from the cockpit.  You need to go forward to pull the sock down.  OK except when single handing.  I saw this at a boat show and it has my interest.

www.sailcdi.com/Spinnakerfurler.htm

The salesman claim was hoist it at the dock, you sail normally with the jib, then you can furl the jib, then unroll the spinnaker, sail, then roll furl the spinnaker, all from the cockpit.  I'd like to here form some sailors that have experience with it.
Jim

[Ron Hill]

Roc : Your mast should have a spinnaker halyard exit already there!!

If you look on the starboard forward mast about 5-6 feet below the top cap you'll see an stainless protector pointing up (rather than down like the other 5 exits on the lower mast - that's the spinnaker halyard exit.  The spinnaker halyard should come out of the mast on one of the port entrances, go up the mast, exit the mast thru that starboard upper exit and then go thru a block attached to the bail on the front of the mast cap.

If the second bow halyard you have installed comes out thru the port side forward sheave on the mast cap - you have a second jib halyard. 

[Craig Illman]

Ron - I thought my exit was on the port side of my mast. Maybe I had a left-handed boat?

Craig

[tonywright]

On the MKII roller-furling mast there is a messenger line on the starboard PORT side (clearly different to the MKI's!), already labelled for spinnaker. It exits at the top of the mast. In hardware you just need to add a block at the head of the mast (call Garhauer). I added a couple of stainless cleats to the port side of the mast to help manage the lines, because I have found it best to work from the mast if launching and retrieving single-handed.

The sock makes everything much much simpler for both launch and retrieval, especially when you want to bring it in because the wind picked up and you are getting overpowered.  Without the sock you will wrestle with it to avoid dropping it in the water, and it is much harder to pack away for a clean launch next time (racing crews use sacrificial rubber bands). Highly recommended.

Tony

[Ron Hill]

Craig : The Mk I C34s I've seen have the spinnaker haylard as I described.

Look in your owners manual on page 4.1.5 and you'll see the mast head set up.  The haylard for the spinnaker exits the top of the mast (approx 5 /6 feet from the top) on the fwd starboard side. 
Same page for my early MK II manual!

[Craig Illman]

Ron - You're right. I had to dig into my pictures and confirm it.

[Stu Jackson]

Craig : The Mk I C34s I've seen have the spinnaker halyard as I described.

Look in your owners manual on page 4.1.5 and you'll see the mast head set up.  The haylard for the spinnaker exits the top of the mast (approx 5 /6 feet from the top) on the fwd starboard side. 
Same page for my early MK II manual!

From that Drawing 4.1.5 Ron noted, it sure seems that running a spinnaker from a second jib halyard could prove costly to the upper swivel of your roller reefing/furling system and the forestay.

[jkar]

Roc, yes, you need to run it out the side of the mast to a block on a bail.  Don't even think about running it from the second jib halyard.  As other's noted, the stress on the forestay would be too great.  What they didn't mention is that you will not be able to gybe it as it will be inside the forestay.  Not to mention that you will not be able to get a full hoist and if you use a sock, that is a lot of stuff up there on the swivel just itching to cause grief, chaffe and tangles.

Socks are nice for short handed sailing.  If using for racing, you can disconnect the sail from the swivel inside the sock.  When done, re-attach and cruise.  Joel

[Wayne]

I have a 'code 0' type A spinnaker set up on my boat.  My sailmaker removed my second jib halyard and replaced it with a spinnaker halyard that runs out the slot in the mast, upward to a block mounted on the masthead crane, then of course down to the deck.  I formerly used an ATN sleeve, they work great, but I wanted to get myself off the foredeck so I went with a continuous line code 0 furler, which is a fantastic setup.  The masthead crane that comes with our boats is just fine when using a sock for dousing the spinnaker.  However, when I went to a furler setup I was concerned about halyard wrap problems up top, so I consulted Charleston spars (the manufacturer of our masts) and with their approval had a new crane manufactured that moved the masthead spinnaker block forward (and away from the furled jib) about 5 or six inches.  Since a code 0 requires a tight luff, and puts a heavy load on the crane, my newly manufactured crane includes some gussets (or  'ribbing') to stiffen it against bending.  The tack end of the boat required attention, also.  For my attachment point I purchased a couple of Westmarine tangs (the heavy ones, about 1 1/2" wide, 1/4" thick, and maybe 1' long).  I had holes drilled and the length shortened so that I could bolt them to the vertical sides of my anchor roller running forward and somewhat upward; at the forward end I mounted an upside down bail to become my 'clip on' point for the tack.  The luff of my spanker sets just inside my bow pulpit.  In my opinion the loads of a code 0 are much too great to simply clip the tack onto the anchor roller, so I had a funky bobstay added.  This bobstay is simply a large turnbuckle with one end attached to the lowest bolt of the bow stem fitting (the stainless steel bar that holds the jib furler connection point and bends downward over the prow of the boat and runs downward and back with several bolts into the fiberglass of the bow.  The other end of the turnbuckle is bolted into the bottom of the anchor roller.  I WOULDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT USING A CODE 0 WITHOUT THIS BOBSTAY!!!  The load for a code 0 is radically different from the loads distributed by A spinnakers with an adjustable tack line!!!

[Wayne]

This is a continuation of the above post:
I have some more advice regarding the sail itself and other furler options.  My current sail and furler is the second try at acheiving my goals.  My first sail was made of light (polyester?); the pretty colorful stuff that most spinakers are made of.  It was a Doyle UPC.  The Doyle folks put a small single line harken furler on the thing.  What a piece of crap!!!  The sail furled nicely in lighter air, and when beam reaching or below.  But the minute I would come up onto a close reach or beat in wind over 15 kts the sail would blow open at the top.  Pretty unpleasant situation.  The Doyle dealer replaced the dinky furler with the ATN sock, which is a great product and works really well.  The sail itself never really set well, and the lightweight material stretched over a short period of time.  A year ago I talked to another sailmaker who suggested that the colorful and cheap polyester was way too stretchy; as a matter of fact he said he usually would refuse to make a code 0 type sail of this kind of material.  I decided to give him a try with a new sail and a code 0 furler and am a really happy camper with the results.  The sail cost more that the polyester sails (perhaps $1200 more) and is white with carbon fiber threads, but it sets really, really well and holds its shape.  I have the furling line led back to the cockpit, and the furler works really really well also.  So my advice is to spend the money to get a really good sail, and a really good furler.  In the long run, you will get the performance you want, and spending money on quality upfront is more economical than having a 'false start' and wasting that money.
I hope all of this helps!