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Author Topic: Fixing leaking fixed portlights  (Read 12199 times)

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Jeff Kaplan

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2014, 10:20:34 AM »

Ron,

I got the butyl tape from a company that makes replacement ports for all boats.  As stated, I got the ports replaced by a local plastics company.  The ports have been in place for over 6 seasons and never a problem.  The rubber never dries out, remains flexable, completely seals out water and I would recommend this proceedure be done as the most effective way to re seal, replaced ports.
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KWKloeber

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2014, 05:20:48 PM »

Jeff : Mainsail does not recommend using butyl rubber tape bedding the fixed port windows.
 
A thought!

Ron,

Wow that's something I haven;t heard - I know he had used it on other ports and wonder why the difference?
Do you have a pointer to the article or RC's post on that?

Ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
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Jeff Tancock

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2014, 07:54:03 AM »

I believe that Mainsail wouldn't recommend Butyl for this application is because it is a good sealant but not an adhesive. If there isn't a mechanical attachment (screws or bolts) it won't work so well as it wouldn't be secured. That would suggest that it all depends on how well the screws hold the lens in place....
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Jeff Tancock
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KWKloeber

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2014, 08:04:07 AM »

I believe that Mainsail wouldn't recommend Butyl for this application is because it is a good sealant but not an adhesive. If there isn't a mechanical attachment (screws or bolts) it won't work so well as it wouldn't be secured. That would suggest that it all depends on how well the screws hold the lens in place....

WOW.  Duh. Apologies.  I had my C30 hat on (framed windows.)  Of course one wouldn't use butyl on the PGlass windows!

Ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

stevewitt1

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2014, 05:06:35 PM »

hey all:

Sometimes I think I ate dumb donuts for breakfast but I'm really having a hard time following the conversation here.  I hear references to screws, frames, the deck (not cabin trunk), the head and I'm still not clear on what is being replaced.  My 34 (1989) has two large plexiglass fixed windows on the "cabin trunk sides" and three opening ports overhead. (one in the main salon, one in the V-berth and one overhead in the head.  Then there are 6 (three on each side of the cabin trunk) opening ports as well as two opening ports in the aft cabin that open to the cockpit.

Apply 30# of lead weights eliminates the large plexiglass windows on the cabin trunk sides

Screws seem to eliminate inserts on overhead hatches but I have corner screws in my large plexi fixed cabin trunk side windows.

Or are we talking about the opening ones??

I haven't been able to visualize the spacers being talked about.

Someone please help steer this feeble mind in the right directions.
Thank You in advance


Steve

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mregan

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2014, 05:15:53 PM »

We are talking about the 4 fixed windows.

Originally, at least on the MK 1, there were screws in the fixed windows along with sealant to hold them in place.  I think, and I don't know because I don't have one, the newer 34's had the fixed windows without screws.  When some people replaced their fixed windows on the MK1, they didn't use screws.  Others did.  They aren't really needed but I found when I replaced my windows, the screws held the window compressed against the cabin so the sealant could get a good hold.

As far as the spacers.  If you were replacing the windows and just applied sealant to the cabin frame, then pressed the windows onto the sealant, if you pressed too hard, there is a chance all the sealant would squirt out and you wouldn't get a good seal.  With adding a thin foam spacer, say 1/8" thick, no matter how hard you press the window against the cabin, you will always have a 1/8" gap which will be filled with sealant so you don't have to worry about the sealant squirting out.
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KWKloeber

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2014, 05:20:26 PM »

hey all:


Apply 30# of lead weights eliminates the large plexiglass windows on the cabin trunk sides


Steve

visit us at ......www.ocontoyachtclub.com and www.warbirdsix.com

Steve,

Here's the object of the topic:
http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Instructions_for_replacing_large_fixed_side_windows'

I missed any mention of 30# of lead?  I must have a carrot deficiency.  Too many doughnuts?

Ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
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mregan

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2014, 02:58:32 AM »

I used screws when I did mine.  Didn't need the weights.
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Noah

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2014, 08:30:24 AM »

Nice research/directions post Ken! When I do mine (they are crazed but can wait awhile down the road) I am considering foregoing the screws and usong the "Fred K" jig technique.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7688.msg52834.html#msg52834

Seems like it will apply the best even pressure. Just wondering how many black foam tape spacers to use and where to buy them?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 07:03:36 PM by Noah »
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mregan

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Re: Looking for best way to fix leaking windows on 34 Cat
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2014, 02:27:44 AM »

I spaced the foam spacers about 6-8" apart.  You can get a role at any hardware store.  I used 1/8 thick.  Make sure you get black.  If you use grey or white, you will see them through the plexiglass.
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Fred Koehlmann

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Re: Fixing leaking fixed portlights
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2014, 07:24:55 PM »

Noah, here is a link to the complete operation of me replacing the windows in an older C&C 30 [http://blog.koehlmann.ca/marine-maintenance/replacing-the-main-port-windows/]. It should be reasonably self explanatory. Let me know if you have any questions. Foam or rubber spacers from a home build centre will work. If using foam, it should NOT compress easily. Also to make life easier, you may want to tack or glue them in place, so they don't move when laying up your window over the silicone. On the Catalina you have a slight advantage because the window sits inside a slight well or depression, but you may still have to help centre it within that space.
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Noah

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Re: Fixing leaking fixed portlights
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2014, 09:30:27 PM »

Thx Fred. I appreciate it!
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KWKloeber

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Re: Fixing leaking fixed portlights
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2014, 12:45:54 AM »

Noah, here is a link to the complete operation of me replacing the windows in an older C&C 30 [http://blog.koehlmann.ca/marine-maintenance/replacing-the-main-port-windows/]. It should be reasonably self explanatory. Let me know if you have any questions. Foam or rubber spacers from a home build centre will work. If using foam, it should NOT compress easily. Also to make life easier, you may want to tack or glue them in place, so they don't move when laying up your window over the silicone. On the Catalina you have a slight advantage because the window sits inside a slight well or depression, but you may still have to help centre it within that space.

Fred,

Thanks for the great write up and pix of the window replacements -- this is especially germane to us C30 MK-I folks without the recessed windows, and with the "RV" aluminum frames.  Ours are NOT thru bolted or screwed to the coachroof, the screws between the inner and outer frames are totally within the cut opening.  As such, the holes in the coachroof are large, and at least on the C30 sometimes is difficult to center the frames in the holes because there may be only a half-inch overlap of the frame on to the fiberglass -- if pushed all the way in one direction, you see sky!

Using the trim piece is genius - usually it involved fiberglassing the gap between the outer and liner, and finishing off the openings to nice smooth, straight lines, and gel coating or painting them.  

I'm unsure whether the trim will easily work, at least on the c30.  The openings were cut so roughly and unevenly it's shameful.  The factory techs who cut in those windows definitely took "out of sight, out of mind" literally.  

I ran across an old, unretouched photo of an actual catalina tech eyeing up to make the precision window cutouts:

[attachimg=#]


I suppose we'd need grind out the openings to "oversize" so the lines are at least straight, and then apply the trim and (over)size the plexi accordingly?

Theres is actually a question in all this -- the foam or rubber blocks -- don't they detract from the adhesion?  I picture them eating up some of the space where 795 would have been sitting. I'd be afraid of a failure point -- not re: total adhesion of the plexi, but maybe just a "thin spot" and possibly a future leak point?  Also doesn't the trim piece outlining the hole, provide enough of a "block" to totally squeezing out of the 795?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,
Ken K
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 12:48:06 AM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Fred Koehlmann

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Re: Fixing leaking fixed portlights
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2014, 04:07:24 AM »

Hi Ken,

To be honest, I have not had to use the spacers (foam or rubber) since the trim piece provided me that spacing by default. These spacers however do not need to be large or continuous, and in some scenarios they can not. We have a glass shower stall at home and the installer just used small squares of clear rubber to ensure the space in the gap between the glass and the sill, wall and ceiling remained a constant thickness. Ultimately that is all you are trying to ensure, that the silicone remains at its ideal thickness to ensure adhesion while it sets (the ideal thickness - or the products limits, should be noted in the directions, as it was on the side of the tube of Dow Corning 795). The internet is pretty informative these days... you can easily look-up the products spec's.

If you also have an inner and outer layer deck layer, then I would also make sure that you seal the space between. I did this with West epoxy, buttered into the gap all the way around. To ensure that you're not continually pushing more in, first push a a small cord or rounded foam spacer to act as a backer. In my case it was less critical since I finished off the edge with the trim piece, and thickened my epoxy a fair bit. I also clamped the two together, but that may not be appropriate in your case.
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Clay Greene

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Re: Fixing leaking fixed portlights
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2014, 08:35:39 AM »

FYI, the Catalina instructions for replacing the windows is in the Tech Wiki. 
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