Cabin heating thoughts

Joe Holmes · April 11, 2011, 05:30:09 PM

First thing I'd like to do is say hello- after reading the website info for the better part of a year I recently joined. This is a great source of information and inspiration for a new owner. I bought a 1988 tall rig last spring and enjoyed a great summer.

My question is about cabin heating. While at some point I may consider installing a furnace (I am on the St John River in New Brunswick) I have thought about a simpler and cheaper alternative to take the chill out. Does anyone have any experience with portable (propane) catalytic heaters? From what I have read, there is no production of CO from catalytic heaters, which would be an advantage.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Joe

Stu Jackson · April 11, 2011, 07:05:01 PM

Joe,

Welcome aboard.

We have an REI catalytic heater. It is no more powerful than a 1500 watt (standard) electric heater with a built-in fan. All it does is take to chill off your feet. But we do like it for its portability, storage and heat.

As you most likely already know, running ANY heating system when you're not awake is verboten.

The choices are pretty clear:

1. Electric or catalytic heater

2. Wall mounted propane, kerosene or lamp oil heater - requires a fan above it to move the heat, most escapes up the small 1 inch chimney. We have a Force 10 and I dislike it immensely. It's noisy and requires yet another fuel, alcohol, to light the (kerosene) burner.

3. A real heater, like a Dickson, with a larger chimney.

4. A "real" heating system, either air or hydronic. Air is preferred to avoid condensation, hydronic is easier to install the heating coils since piping is easier to route than ductwork. Steve Dolling had a neat solution to the ducting, by running it from the port locker through the head compartment simply under the mirrored storage compartment.

5. As an intermediate step, Bob Kuba designed and installed a hydronic heating coil for use only when the engine was running, it's in the Tech wiki.

We depend heavily on our large trawler lamp, too!!!

But in your neck of the woods, it gets a LOT colder than we see around here.

Good luck.

Stephen Butler · April 11, 2011, 11:13:53 PM

We have used catalytic heaters and they are very good. However, the (complete) combustion of any hydrocarbon (i.e. propane) produces CO2 and H2O. Incomplete combustion of propane will also yield CO. So, following Stu's advice, ventilate well and turn off when going to sleep.

scotty · April 12, 2011, 07:24:48 AM

I'm thinking of adding a diesel heater to the bulkhead (main cabin, port, front bulkhead). I'm in Santa Cruz, so it's not to cold here. I want it mostly for the evenings while we are in the cabin. If you have a similar installation, how has it worked out for you? Thanks.

Stu Jackson · April 12, 2011, 08:51:14 AM

Scotty,

It simply didn't work for us. Our Force 10 is kerosene fired, but it is the very same unit except for the burner orifices.

Here are some earlier discussions:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1513.0.html

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2410.0.html (has embedded links to read, too)

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1794.0.html

Hawk · April 12, 2011, 04:43:19 PM

I have the espar diesel heater which works great. It is tucked up under the port cockpit lazarette and has a blower. The 4 air ducts are out of the way and heat the cabin quickly. I can turn it on and off with or without power.......and no furnace pasted to the cabin bulkhead.
Here is the site:

http://www.espar.com/html/applications/marine.html

Hawk

Joe Holmes · April 12, 2011, 05:59:47 PM

Thanks for all of your comments. I have spent time in an Espar-heated boat, and agree that it seems to be the ultimate. For now I will try to get by with a portable catalytic, PJ's, and an extra blanket. The furnace will wait for another year.

scotty · April 12, 2011, 08:30:33 PM

Hawk, Which size and type of unit did you get? What are some of the safety thoughts about having a burner in the port lazarette?

waterdog · April 12, 2011, 10:22:12 PM

Quote from: scotty on April 12, 2011, 08:30:33 PM
Hawk, Which size and type of unit did you get? What are some of the safety thoughts about having a burner in the port lazarette?

I have a Webasto 3500 in the same location. I was not comfortable with the thought of loose gear coming in contact with the exhaust hose and put up a hinged plywood barrier to ensure no contact.

Paulus · April 13, 2011, 03:18:40 AM

Does anyone have pictures of the installation? Would like to see it.
Thanks,
Paul

Michael Shaner · April 13, 2011, 08:07:25 PM

I too still suffer from diesel heater envy. Our Canadian friends know what's up, no doubt. I long for a Chesapeake New Year's Eve...on the hook...in sock feet.

Diesel heater wasn't on the PHRF application...gotta be worth another 5, eh?

sailingdream · April 13, 2011, 09:45:11 PM

Here is a link to a post a did over a yr ago about my experience.
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5365.0.html

I'm a full time live aboard in Toronto and this is my second winter. It was colder and snowier this yr. But I was much better prepared and found that I was warmer and more comfy down below.

The biggest change this yr I did was placing mats like this on the floorboards.

Back onto the question of heat. I run a 1500watt heater(

) full time. This keeps the boat pretty warm as is. Even if the outside temperature is -16c outside it was +16C inside.
Since I sleep in the v-berth. I have a Ceramic heater(1500w) on the portside shelf and another one in the galley at 900w set to LOW just to take the chill out in that corner.
The Ceramic heaters only come on when needed and run very little.

The key is to keep the interior warm. Once you let the boat get cold that's it, It takes forever to heat up and keep warm.
The Oil filled heater is left on all day, and when I get home I flip on the ceramics on and in less then 20 mins it's a good 21C and I'm comfy in a shirtsleeve t-shirt.

And Electric blanket helps too to take the chill out of the v-berth cushion.

Once the water temperature gets about +5C then I can begin using my Heat Pump/AC Unit. Which throws TONS of heat.

Ken Juul · April 14, 2011, 04:16:43 AM

+1 on the oil filled heater and the electric blanket. I used them for several winters when I lived aboard. Unfortunately they only work at the dock, I'm thinking the original question was for heat anywhere, (dock, anchor, underway).

Gary · April 14, 2011, 05:44:08 AM

We use an Origo Heat Pal to warm the cabin on cold and rainy days. I have found it will keep the main cabin comfortable down to about 50 degrees. It is always a little cooler in the V berth, aft cabin and head.

We store the stove in the port locker in the cockpit, along with a gallon of alcohol. We will use one gallon over a season.

In use the Heat Pal is on rubberized non-skid (generally used under rugs) and placed beneath the cabin table adjacent to the mast. The warmth radiates up and around the table. Of course, we keep the sliding hatch open 4 or 5 inches and there have been no problems with fumes. Heat output is adjustable. We do have a CO detector mounted low in the main cabin. We do not use the heater while underway.

Defender lists it at http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|1066337|1066189&id=48897

Gary

scotty · April 14, 2011, 06:49:55 PM

I went to the Strictly Sailboat Show today. Had a lot of fun. I went aboard a lot of boats, especially the Catalina 470, 4?0 (I can't remember - 420?), 36 MKII, and 320. I spent a lot of time on the 350, which is a lot like the 34. It's a great boat, but the seating is a little high - my legs didn't hit the floor. I like my boat, C34 MkI, mo betta. However, while I was there I talked to Rodger (and Dinah) of Farallon Yachts. I asked about the heater on his boat (a 420 I think). He has an Espar diesel mounted in his engine compartment with one air duct into the main cabin. He is quite pleased with his system. I'm going to spend a bit of time thinking about this.