Forward Mooring Cleats

[Brad Young]

I have ordered two 8' cleats from Catalina Direct.
They did not come with bolts,nuts,washers, Backing plates.
Beckson deckplate is on order.

DarBay is in Mexico. I need to gather all the above for
my next trip down south.
Here is my question.

1)How long of a bolt do I need to go thru the deck?
2)What should I make my backplates from? I read where
Ron built his out of Lexan, I do have some Lexan laying around.
or should I go buy some stainlees steel? How thick?

Thanks
Brad of DarBay

[Ron Hill]

Brad : Too bad you didn't order the cleats (Schaeffer) from Defender, as they would have come with bolts and backing plates (Mainsheet article)

To answer your questions :  I'd get 2 inch bolts.  Look at wether they should be flat head or oval head and the size (1/4, 5/16, 3/8) will depend on the ho;es in the cleats you got from Catalina. 
I'd guess that 1/8" thick stainless is more than satisfactory for backing plates. I use 1/4" lexan.  Just make sure that they are 1/2" larger than the cleat foot print.

Just be cautious that you don't cut thru the running/cabin light wiring while you are installing them(another Mainsheet article).    Hope this helps.   

[Ted Pounds]

I think I used 3" bolts.  For backing plates I used aluminum bar stock. 

[2ndwish]

We just added these cleats last weekend. We also bought the $33 aluminum ones from Catalina Direct. We tried something different than the common wisdom. I found that I could reach the forward bolt location on both sides through the existing OEM Beckson plate . So instead of using a backing plate and nuts, we had the backing plate made from 1/4" 316 stainless, with tapped holes (roughly $10 each). That way I could hold the plate in place while getting the aft bolt in (figuring any hole I don't have to cut in the deck is better than one I do).  We started the job by drilling the deck and dry fitting. We then overdrilled, sealed the core with epoxy (the wood was actually bone dry after 23 years) and filled the holes. Redrilled to proper size and dry fit. The port side worked just fine, but the starboard holes were a little too sloppy, so it was difficult to get both bolts in. We eventually gave up and drilled a clearance hole in the backing plate for the forward bolt and used a nut there. Still it worked fine. Then used a liberal amount of 4200 (after taping the deck) on the deck and bolt, pressed, lifted, added more 4200, including under the screw head. Tightened.   We used 4 inch SS philips head flat bolts, 3-1/2 would have been fine. Let the whole thing dry a few days and cleaned off the excess. It was not easy getting my arm in there without the additional Beckson plate, but I am not particularly long-armed, nor am I a professional contortionist (although I seem to play one on weekends). In the end, I actually found I could reach all four bolts, but it would have been very difficult to get a nut on the aft bolt. Old cleat removal and bow roller installation next weekend...

[Michael Shaner]

2ndwish, are you speaking of the OEM center mounted cleat behind the forestay? If so, why are you planning to remove it?

[Brad Young]

Ron: my furgalness got the best of me on this one. Catalina Direct:$33 Defender:$58. I am going to call Defender today and ask what is in the box for the shaffer cleats. It would be worth the extra $$ if it comes with the mounting hardware.

2ndWish: What kind of expoxy did you use? Any pictures of your install?

[Stu Jackson]

Old cleat removal and bow roller installation next weekend...

I agree with Michael.  Don't remove it.  Once your anchor is down, you'll find it lines up perfectly with the chain or rode and is a great place to tie the rode off, compared to the side cleats, which will end up having the rode chafe the pulpit. 

The big center cleat is almost as good as having a Sampson post.

I recommend leaving it in until you anchor out a few times and see what works for you.

Unless you have already purchased the new bow roller, you may also want to consider leaving the old toy bow roller.  We did, and so did "waterdog" and we find it works for our Rocna anchors just fine.

[2ndwish]

The cleat installation was part of a windlass install, which is really driving the decision making. We carefully looked at different anchor approaches, including keeping the existing bow rollers. We are fortunate to have 5 different C34's on our dock so we were able to compare all of them. In the end we decided the best install would be the one similar to Ron's- there is a good example of it on the dock. One significant advantage for us is that we currently have a large Danforth anchor, with the new bow roller we can use it and eventually upgrade to the Rocna. The toy bow roller can't be easily used with the Danforth. We would very much like to keep the large cleat, but the new bow roller (also purchased from CD) looks like it will preclude it. Even if we can squeeze the new hardware past, there is not much room left to make it very useful. We have the bow roller and Len will do dry fitting over the next couple of days. If he can save the cleat, I'm sure he will.

As far as epoxy goes- we used West G-flex, which is similar to the standard West product, but with a little more flexibility. W-M sells a $25 repair kit with syringes, thickener and mixers, so we went that way. One of the holes was not adequately sealed on the bottom and ran out (operator error) so I used Marine-Tex to fill that one (the core had been well sealed with the G-flex).

As far as photos go. I'll take some this weekend. Should have taken some in the process. I will for the bow roller.   

[Ron Hill]

Brad : As I recall the Schaeffer cleats were 8" large "open" cleats.  They came with a 1/4" stainless backing plate and larger bolts than most cleats use.  Instead of small diameter bolts they were 5/16" or 3/8".  I used the stainless backing plates on top to cover up some old holes from the previously mounted 6" cleats.  That's why I went to lexan for the backing plate!! 

2ndwish : I love that center cleat for the anchor rode.  If you look at my installation there is plenty of room for the new bow roller and that center cleat.  I'd leave the center cleat and try is for a year - as you can always remove it. 

A few thoughts

[2ndwish]

Here are the promised photos. I put a digital camera where my head wouldn't fit and got photos of the backing plates. In the second photo you can see the starboard plate with the clearance hole forward. The plates are 1/4 inch, even though it doesn't look like it. You can also see the OEM washer installation of the bow pulpit.

[Ron Hill]

2nd : Your installation looks great, but it appears like they maybe 6 inch open cleats on each side.  6" cleats are nice for raft-ups!!

The reason that I removed my 6 " cleats and installed 8" cleats was because of hurricane Isabel.  If you ever have to double up your mooring lines and have a 1/2" braided and 1/2" three strand go onto a single cleat, you'll wish you have 8" cleats just like the factory installed on the 1986-1988 MK I's stern !!  The same goes for the midship cleat size!! 

A thought

[2ndwish]

Ron- After reading your post I was concerned. I confess, I never actually measured the cleats. I did order 8 inch cleats and that is what is invoiced. I went back and looked at the high resolution versions of the photos, and using the 5/16 bolts for scale, was able to deduce that the bolt separation is 2-3/4 inches (which is exactly what C-D specified). From that separation as scale, I looked at the top photo and measured 8.02 inches (p-m 0.5 inches) for the for the cleat size. Len will measure this week to be sure, but I'm confident they are 8 inch cleats.   

T

[Les Luzar]

I had to remove my center bow cleat when I installed my 29 inch Garhaur bow roller because it interfered with the alignment from my windlass. This length allows my Bruce Anchor good bow clearance when deploying and retrieving my anchor. And it also aligns well with the bow pulpit. I would recommend stainless schaefer cleats because they will match will with a stainless bow roller. Once installed, you will forget about the price, because it will look very good.