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Author Topic: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips  (Read 6000 times)

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markr

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Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« on: April 01, 2010, 04:25:09 PM »

I searched the tech wiki (yes, Stu, I did, I promise!) for stuff on installing additional bow cleats, port and starboard. I have the 87 MKI with the single cleat in the center. In the one article I saw, there was mention of being able to get at the nuts and backing plate for the new starboard cleat via a beckson port in the anchor locker. It then mentioned having to install another of these ports to get at the port nuts and backing plate. Is this beckson port the inspection hatch (screw in type) in the anchor locker?

I ask because I was readying myself the take apart the shelf and forward bulkhead in the v berth to get in at the underside to install these cleats - I was surprised to hear about this port option. I was visualising  getting at the backig plate/bolts by reaching in  to the sides of the anchor locker, between the locker and the hull.......Any advice on the best way to do this job? I have to say that I am dubious about the inspection port in the forward part of my anchor locker giving me the right kind of access for this job....?

I was reviewing the recent article on installing a larger anchor roller (as well as windlass) - great photos - and this is also on my project list. I note the need to take apart the v berth to install the windlass.....the pictures helped me to see what was inside there.

Thank you.
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Michael Shaner

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2010, 05:02:53 PM »

Mark,

I think Ron Hill has written an article on this. Follow this link to Ron's windlass install Wiki. This shows the location of the access ports to add the port and stbd cleats. Be careful drilling/cutting the access holes as the nav light wiring run is is this area.

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Image:15_Windlass_finished_both_doors_open.jpg

A PO added our additional cleats without adding the access ports. He must have had some real long arms...I don't think they came from Catalina...
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Ron Hill

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2010, 05:41:16 PM »

Mark : If you'll look at the May 2007 Mainsheet tech notes, you'll find an article on my changing out my 6" side cleats (installed 1993/4?) to 8" stainless Schaeffer side cleats. 
All of the details are in that lastest article, while the earlier 1993 article also talks about installing side cleats.

Great information is contained in the past 24 years of owner modifications (Mainsheet Technical Notes) to their C34s.  We have the tech notes all listed on our web site for your review.  A bunch of thoughts.
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Ted Pounds

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2010, 06:41:24 AM »

Putting the inspection port in the anchor locker will give you way easier access then going through the bulkhead in the front cabin.  Just make sure you tie a string the wrench that you use so it's easily retrieved if dropped.  :thumb:
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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2010, 01:06:25 PM »

Great timing, I was just getting ready to ask about this subject.  I need to take a look at the articles referenced in this chain.  The PO added the port and starboard cleats after removing the large center cleat when he added a bow roller.  He did not add backing plates, so I need to do that.  I have the access panels in the anchor locker, I cannot get my big ham hands in to get at the nuts or figure how there is much room for backing plates.  Even had my son's girl friend with the little hands give it a try without much luck.  What is the secret?
Mark Mueller
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Ron Hill

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2010, 05:24:39 PM »

Mark : If you read my articles, you'll find that you need to cut-in and install a couple of Beckson ports.  This is mainly so you can install backing plates.
Just remember that you need to reach in the factory installed center port and tape up the bow running light wires so you don't cut into them while installing the side ports - on BOTH sides !!
A thought
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markr

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 07:39:38 PM »

Ok, thanks for that input - and the link to the photo was very useful. Beckson ports on both sides make a lot of sense.
Has anyone tried to install through the v-berth forward bulkhead, perhaps as part of a windlass install? Is it possible to reach up there? I am asking the lazy question to avoid disappointment before taking all the wood and the shelf out to have a look.
If I have to install the beckson ports, then I will - but I feel that if I could do the install perhaps from the v-berth without having to add extra ports, I would do so.
Do these ports have any use once the cleats are installed?
Thanks.
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 11:51:14 PM »

1.  Has anyone tried to install through the v-berth forward bulkhead, perhaps as part of a windlass install? Is it possible to reach up there?

2.  Do these ports have any use once the cleats are installed?

1.  If you examine the physical configuration of the anchor locker interior, you'll find that the forward end of the V berth faces the aft end of the anchor locker.  The forward end of the anchor locker is where you NEED to install the cleats.  There is barely enough room for fingers, a wrist and a forearm once you install the Beckson plates inside the anchor locker.  There would not be room to reach all the way from the aft end of the anchor locker around the sides to as far forward as you'd need to get to install new cleats.  You simply could not get from there to there.  Believe us, we've had these boats for over twenty years, and if there was a "better" way to do it, Ron would've found it.

2.  Nope.  :D

Ron's anchor windlass install wiki has pictures of what it looks like up forward in the V berth, per my discussion in item #1 above.  See the flix here:  http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Windlass_Inside_Double_Door_Anchor_Well

It really doesn't look like you'd be able to get around the sides forward enough to make it work.  The photos also show his added port(s).

As a reminder, don't remove the original middle cleat.  I installed only one additional cleat on the port side, and use the middle cleat for starboard breast lines.  One's limiting, two's nice, three's the very best.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 11:58:38 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Tom Glennon

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 12:18:54 PM »

I was able to use the existing inspection port for one of the cleats (starboard side on my '87) and used my Dremel with a hole cutting attachment to cut the hole for the port beckson plate.
The only problem I had was getting the wrench on the aft nut to snug it nice and tight.
The project is well worth the contortion!
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Ron Hill

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2010, 05:18:40 PM »

Forgot to mention that on the MK1, if you loose a socket or wrench it isn't lost forever while installing extra cleats. 
Just remove the panels under the Vberth an look for the lost tool in botton of the hull. 
It won't be captive between the line and the hull - up near the bow!! 
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WTunnessen

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 02:25:33 PM »

Mark

I did this project last weekend.  It took me about 3 hours, but I might be slow.

To cut the hole, I used a RotoZip tool with a circle cutter adaptor.  This seem to work pretty well, but I do not have a lot of experience cutting large holes in fiberglass.  It did cut a nice round hole and did not chip the gelcoat.   I used a metal cutting bit which seem to work best at the "25" speed.  I'd be curious if others have used this tool and what they found to work the best.

When you place your cleats be sure to consider spacing for the backing plate/washers.

For the starboard side I was able to reach the forward nut and bolt thru the existing access port.  But I really needed other / new starboard access port to get to both bolts & nuts for tightening.

If you buy cleats - make sure you get ones with two thru bolts that you can tighten with a screw driver from on top. It very cramped for tigthening with with a wrench or socket.
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markr

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 09:50:53 PM »

Thanks for the tip.
 I am standing by ready to do the job. I accidentally bought access ports which require a 6.5" cutout, and of course they don't sell that size hole saw at home depot, so I have invested in an adjustable affair that I justify as useful for any other jobs that I do that need holes!
I have two access ports, two cleats, washers and a friend making me up some backing plates. Thanks for the tip on the bolts - I have two bolt holes on each cleat and I have bolts with nylock nuts and the bolt has a phillips head screwdriver slot on the top so it will probably, as you say, be easier to tighten from above while holding the nut in place with a wrench.
I have aluminum cleats> I was looking into this and sealing the aluminum from the stainless bolt to prevent corrosion, and it seem that if I just fill the cavity with silicon as part of the sealing process that will work - anyone any ideas on this?
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 11:19:54 PM »

Preventing corrosion is something you want to do with things you need to get apart.  This may not be one of them.   :D

Silicone will eventually disappear, suggest Lanacote on the bolt body, but you'll have to seal underneath the bolt head anyway.
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Ron Hill

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Re: Extra Bow Cleats - request for installation tips
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2010, 05:18:06 PM »

Guys, Susan & D. Gill : If you are installing the 8" Schaefer cleats that I recommended, you only need caulk the seal where the bolts go thru the deck.  I wouldn't bother putting on any cleat smaller than 8" !!

Those bolts should be screwed into the bottom of the cleat with "Locktite" and as with any other nut that's (hard to get at and) out of the way - use a self locking style nut w/backing plate.  That way you'll seldom have to recheck it.
A thought
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