anchor choices

[mainesail]

Ron,

I'd be very curious to see this Hayn swivel and the part number. I suspect you were perhaps sold misleading information by a vendor? I like Hayn stuff, as it is top quality, but I have their full line catalog in front of me with no anchor swivels. I then perused the web site to find it and no anchor swivels. As a last ditch I called them, and was informed that they don't make an anchor swivel?


Personally I've never found the need to use a swivel and I've used both all chain and chain/rode. I have seen and heard of a few broken ones and prefer to just use load rated shackles, chain and rode.  Even with all the tide and wind shifts we get up here, lots, rode twist has never even so much as made me think about adding a swivel to my ground tackle system even after multiple day anchorings and thousands of anchorings over 30+ years..

Rode twist can be more prevalent and tougher to deal with when using all chain though so in some case a swivel may be necessary especially if you anchor for multiple days at a time in one spot without re-setting. Even when I anchor in one spot I still physically re-set every two days. If you're going to be anchored in one spot for weeks on end I can & could see the need for a swivel.

Some of the stainless swivels, such as the Suncor & the Kong, do not have a way, other than using Loc-Tite, of mousing or securing the pins. I would have a real tough time trusting my boat to Loc-Tite glued pins when it is sitting on the bottom of the ocean. My neighbor lost his anchor to a Crosby shackle that he "tightened with a two pipe wrenches". Pins can move with high chain loads and while Loc-Tite is great stuff but I do prefer to mechanically wire my pins shut for piece of mind.. Perhaps I'm being overly cautious but I have rarely if ever heard of a Crosby or CM load rated galvanized shackle failing when properly moused and have read of and actually seen a stainless swivel failure on a Grand Banks trawler.

One key that I saw in the photo of the failed Kong swivel is that it was connected directly to the anchor shank. These swivels are not really designed for taking side loads. If using one I would prefer it to be between two lengths of chain so it would not see as much side loading, if any. Connecting it directly to a fixed shank of an anchor can create tremendous side loads that the swivel was not really rated for and this could drastically de-rate the WLL. Every now and then a company will give a rating both ways but side loads generally reduce working loads by a significant amount With some shackles it halves the WLL.

My own rode system was designed as close to the highest posted or published holding power for my specific anchor. I use a Rocna 33 pound anchor and it has been tested at 5000 pounds of holding power which was the limit of the strain gauge used.

Despite the West Marine adviser stating 1/4" chain and 1/2" rode being fine for my boat I chose to ignore their advisory because it would mean a system rated at HALF what my 33 pound anchor has been published and tested to hold. It could potentially mean leaving a $500.00 anchor on the bottom. I wound up choosing significantly larger chain, 3/8", and a 5/8 double braid rode made by Nova Braid and as I have done for over 30 years and thousands of anchorings, with no issues, no swivel.

I've also witnessed lots of boaters using galvanized swivels. The warnings for ACCO products including the connecting links, swivels and chain are as follows.

WARNING: Do not exceed Working Load Limits (WLL)!
See the "Cautions and Warnings" section before using these products. Pages 72-77.

From pg. 72
Working Load Limit (WLL)
"The "Working Load Limit" (rated capacity) is the maximum load that shall be applied in direct tension."

From pg. 76
"Remember, the definition of Working Load Limit? It's "the maximum load that shall be applied in direct tension to a new and undamaged length of chain. That means straight line pull."


Considering that the WLL for the ACCO swivel is only 1500 pounds, and they only make one model or size, and even a a small 25 pound anchor can hold that much or more. I think there are limited uses for these galvanized swivels unless you have not sized a rode & chain to hold what your anchor can. As I mentioned my 33 pounder has been shown to hold 5000 pounds +/- so using a swivel with a 1500 pound WLL would greatly increase the potential for a rode failure with my ground tackle.

Swivels are and can be safe, but they should be inspected, sized and installed safely and properly. If you need one use one. I have not personally needed one even with 10-12 foot tides swinging the boat all over the place. The swivel I use on my mooring system in three sizes larger than the top chain, which is 3/4" and inspected two or three times per season as it sees the most wear on the system.

[Ron Hill]

Maine : As you are relatively new to this form (2007), you apparently do not know that Ron does not speak with "forked tongue".

The reason that I got into a swivel at all was after reading all the reasons that the moorings up in your area need a swivel ! It's been my experience that in a 24 hr period that the boat could easily swing(circle) around the anchor because of wind & current -a couple of times !
Made sense to me so I attached a swivel to my 33 Bruce anchor (genuine not the Chinese look alike).  My system of Bruce, swivel, 1/4" HT chain and 1/2" braid Sampson nylon rode has held me thru many T-storms.  Two of the storms I had another C34 rafted to mine and we turned 180 degrees, very heavy wind and we didn't move.  So I'm happy.

I bought my stainless swivel over 18? years ago and it was from no "misleading vendor", because the guy that sold it to me was none other than Carl Hayn himself.        A few thoughts

[mainesail]

I bought my stainless swivel over 18? years ago and it was from no "misleading vendor", because the guy that sold it to me was none other than Carl Hayn himself.        A few thoughts

Yes permanent moorings up here need swivels but the boats swing to them for weeks at a time. As I said nothing wrong with a well made swivel, properly installed, and inspected.

The info on Carl Hayn is why I asked. I was excited to hear they made anchor swivels but then confused when I could not find them?  I wish Hayn had not stopped making swivels, they make beautiful stuff and it is a company that I would trust to make a proper swivel.

The only reason I mentioned the potential of a "misleading vendor" is because I ordered a Wichard snap shackle from a "reputable" vendor and when I got it, it was a no-name, for the same price as the Wichard. It seems some vendors like to up-sell on a name and then send you cheaper no-name. Most boaters would never miss the "W" logo, but I did.. I figured you had an answer about the Hayn as you are usually spot on..