Breaker Question

Lance Jones · January 11, 2010, 06:04:11 PM

We've been running 3-4 heaters on low through our AC system (we live aboard). That has worked fine until now. Lately, the breaker pops if it has more than 2 heaters going. Is this a sign of a breaker going bad or is it a sign of something else?

Cheers!

waterdog · January 11, 2010, 09:46:58 PM

Probably a sign of the breaker doing its job. How many Watts are your heaters?

Ken Juul · January 12, 2010, 04:04:41 AM

As the line voltage drops, appliances, heaters, etc draw more amps. The deep freeze in the south has the electric companies demand way up. That could be one cause, another could be a bit of corrosion on your shore power plug ends. Since you are living aboard they probably haven't been unplugged in a couple months. Might try some unplugging both ends of your SP cord and cleaning with contact cleaner/WD 40 to see if it helps. Might also clean the heater cord plugs while you are at it.

BillG · January 12, 2010, 05:20:25 AM

Three heaters can easily draw an excess of 3600 watts, (1200 each) which would equal more than 30 amps. What size is your breaker?

Lance Jones · January 12, 2010, 05:32:07 AM

Thanks all.

Well, now the breaker will not turn back on after it pops

. It will seat; but, it will not cause the power to return. So, I think the breaker is bad. All other AC breakers/appliances do not pop.

Is it ok to go from a 10 amp breaker to a 20 amp? AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, is this a hard job -- I'm not electrically inclined. The heaters are two West Marine Heaters that run on low. The other two are normal ceramic (Small) heaters that we only use to augment the others when it gets REAL cold. They run on low too.

Stu Jackson · January 12, 2010, 08:18:19 AM

Lance,

You have to be careful about both the breaker and the wiring. As you may be aware, the AC power wiring on our boats usually "splits" from the main AC breaker on the electrical panel. One "branch" (group of wires) goes forward on the port side, across the V berth to serve the receptacle on the starboard side than runs all the way down the starboard side serving the galley receptacle and the aft cabin outlets. The other branch serves the nav station outlet and the head outlet.

At least that's how my boat is wired, and most that I've heard of, at least the Mark Is.

You need to make sure that you're not putting all the heaters on only one of the branches, as well as making sure you're not overloading the whole circuit.

I do not understand the reference to a 10 amp breaker, since the only AC breaker you should have on your boat is the 30 amp main breaker.

Please confirm your AC breakers, because 10 amp doesn't sound right.

Also, NEVER simply up the size of a breaker, you could cause big problems.

Please, also let us know the wattage of the heaters you have (i.e., "West Marine heaters on low" doesn't help us engineers at all!

).

Lance Jones · January 12, 2010, 09:01:16 AM

Stu,

I may have had the majority on the port side circuit. However, when I could only get two heaters to run, one was on port and the other starboard. At the low setting, they drew 600w each and 5-13a.

The breaker I'm talking about is labeled Outlets and has 10A underneath the button and looks like the one posted below. That is the one that keeps popping. It use to pop and then you'd reset it and the electron gods would flow to the outlets. Now, when you reset it, the gods don't flow to the outlets anymore.

As usual, you guys have given me more great info. I hope the spammers are getting their fair share!

Ken Juul · January 12, 2010, 09:34:32 AM

The breaker also senses heat. It might be necessary to let it cool for several (10-15) minutes before you reset.

To replace is not hard. Disconnect the AC power from the boat, open the electrical panel and remove/replace one wire at a time. The circuit breaker is there for protection. The wiring will probably start frying before a 20amp will pop, not a good idea.

Another option, run a seperate power extension cord to another outlet on the dock, power some of the heaters from it.

Lance Jones · January 12, 2010, 09:46:41 AM

Thanks Ken,
Good idea about alternate power source. I let the breaker cool down overnight to no avail.

tonywright · January 12, 2010, 11:07:34 AM

On a domestic circuit I would not want to put more than one heater on a 15A circuit. I suspect that the electrical system on a C34 is sized to expect no more than one as well, given that it is protected by a 10A breaker rather than 15A.

Make sure that whatever you plug any addtional extension cord into is GFC protected. And that the extension cord you use is heavy duty and in good condition.. These things heat up fast when carrying a high current draw.

Tony

Hawk · January 12, 2010, 12:23:04 PM

Lance,

I replaced those breakers last year. They are hard to find but check out Nedco Electronics. They shipped 15A and 20A breakers all the way to Canada for me so they'll get them to you.

You might want to read the below thread first. It was dealing with the hot water heater breaker but its the same push on/off unit from ETA. You'll want to confirm the recomended Amps for the outlet breaker.

They are very simple to replace. Just undo the breaker lock nut on the front panel side. Unscrew the panel from the wall and replace the breaker putting the wires back on the same location.

I first disconnect the power cord and put battery selector to OFF and breakers off, to state the obvious!

Good luck.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4711.0.html

Hawk

Ron Hill · January 12, 2010, 06:02:12 PM

Lance : The 1988 boats were wired to an new (then!) ABCYA standards than the earlier boats (i.e. they have a GFI wired in)
Look at the number of watts and I'm sure that "3-4 heaters on low" will not exceed the 30 amps that you have available. (usually the LOW on an electric heater is 750w !!!)
The push ON and push OFF breakers have a spring wear out, that's why we went to toggel breakers in aircraft - for frequently used breakers. A few thoughts

Lance Jones · January 12, 2010, 06:42:42 PM

Thanks for all the input. Problem has been figured out with our local marine electrician. It took 2 hours and half a bottle of Scotch! Ron actually came closest to the problem. We rewired the breaker, still no power. we traced wire. I unhooked and cleaned both ends of the shore power cable. Still no power.

It was while talking about airplanes we had flown and I thought I saw something that wasn't right. I asked Nick to test the GFCI. He did, reset the switch and ta-da!!! WE HAVE POWER... The GFCI had tripped.

yikes!!!!

Hawk · January 12, 2010, 10:48:57 PM

Darn...wish I'd remembered that one.

Same thing happened to me shortly after I got the boat. One day suddenly no power through any outlet. Two hours later I broke down and phoned the father-in-law who claims there is nothing in the world he can't fix. He simply said, "Is there a reset button on an outlet?"

By the way Lance, seeing as you figured it out I take it the marine electrician wasn't going to push re-set until the scotch bottle was empty...(:

Hawk

Lance Jones · January 13, 2010, 05:44:48 AM

Actually, we were both dumbfounded by the whole situation. The nav station light is burned out (How do you get in that thing to change the bulb?) as is the cabin light near that. So, that particular area was a wee bit dark. He had a flashlight and I had a fluorescent light hanging over the nav station. I think if it hadn't been for the hanging light, it would have still been a problem as the light cast a shadow from the GFCI button that made it stand out when I looked there.

The Scotch is a different issue. He knows that we'd drink it one way or another. If we fixed it -- to celebrate! If we didn't -- to stay warm! This way, we were warm AND happy!