Unhappy with your surveyor

[Indian Falls]

It's great to be among such company.  I've been in the forums as an outsider for weeks.

Now we're registered.

The topic concerns that my surveyor may have done us a disservice:

Before purchase we had the boat hauled and surveyed. 

The surveyor did not detect that the hot water tank had frozen and split like a beer can, the head pumps in an odd way and you end up with water in the shower sump, the joint in the ice box around the copper drain nipple was broke, leaked, the check valve allowed lake water to enter the ice box, the breaker for the hot water tank is fried enough that the button is missing, accidentally turning on the disconnected macerator blows the fuse and the fresh water demand pump was double connected with butt splices followed by wire nuts.  There also seems to be evidence of an impact with a fixed object 4 inches below the keel joint forward port, (hauled last week) there is a lot of bedding compound smeared around in the forward bilges.  By the way the keel bolts leak water too.

The survey mentions a small area of fiberglass repair over lead said to be professionally addressed. 

Looks to me like it hit a rock ledge fairly hard at about 30inches below the surface.

This is only what we've discovered on our own so far, not knowing skeet about sailboats.

I'd like to know your valued opinions in this matter.  I'm inclined to contact the surveyor and ask for some of the 14$/foot fee back.  However being new in this sailing community I'm not sure of the protocols. (and I don't want to name the boat Faux Pas either)

Thanks in advance for your consideration!  And we look forward to your comments!

Dan & Dar
3rd owners 1990' C34 997 Named SeaScape, then Resolution and soon to be renamed

[Sundance]

My advice, walk away or get a price on the boat that reflects the condition.  You have done exactly what I recommend, play with everything, turn everything on, turn every switch, open every door, look inside everything.  Don't rely soley on the surveyor. I was only ok with our surveyor, if I hadn't brought items to his attention he would not have found them.  Good luck.

[Stu Jackson]

1.  the hot water tank had frozen and split like a beer can
2.  the head pumps in an odd way and you end up with water in the shower sump
3.  the joint in the ice box around the copper drain nipple was broke, leaked, the check valve allowed lake water to enter the ice box
4.  the breaker for the hot water tank is fried enough that the button is missing,
5.  accidentally turning on the disconnected macerator blows the fuse
6.  the fresh water demand pump was double connected with butt splices followed by wire nuts.  
7.  There also seems to be evidence of an impact with a fixed object 4 inches below the keel joint forward port, (hauled last week) there is a lot of bedding compound smeared around in the forward bilges.  
8.  By the way the keel bolts leak water too.  The survey mentions a small area of fiberglass repair over lead said to be professionally addressed.  Looks to me like it hit a rock ledge fairly hard at about 30inches below the surface.
9.  This is only what we've discovered on our own so far, not knowing skeet about sailboats.

DON'T GIVE UP THE SHIP

Dan & Dar.

You've got a lot of issues, but the surveyor isn't one of 'em.  Protocol says if you weren't there when he did his work you should have been, and also that if you read his contract with you there is little recourse.  The issue was earlier, when you should have gotten a better surveyor or one who did more than just an insurance ("the boat floats, has a head and galley, goodbye") type of survey.

Some of your issues MAY be deal breakers, others not at all.

1.  Hot water heaters cost $150 and can be replaced.  You can do it if you know the right end of a screwdriver.
2.  Head line is connected to shower sump, sounds like the check valve is broken or installed backwards.  Check valve costs $20, another screwdriver job.
3.  I have no idea, never heard of that unless you have a foot pump on the ice box.  Again, fixable.
4.  Easy breaker replacement and check the wiring.
5.  Ditto - sounds like they tied the ends of the wires together when they removed the macerator.
6.  Easy wire replacement.
7.  Didn't they haul for the survey?  Fairing a keel is relatively easy, you can do it or have the yard do it.
8.  What makes you think that?  There are other sources of leaks in a boat like fresh water tanks and the mast.  Is it keel or deck stepped?
9.  New to sailboats:  Buy Don Casey's "This Old Boat" you might be able to find a copy of the first edition online before you shell out $50 for the new edition.  It has everything a C34 of your vintage would need (other than electrical systems and we cover that pretty well right here).

You've just gotten two conflicting inputs.

We can't see the boat.  We don't know its general overall condition in spite of these issues.  We do not know your capabilities as a "handyman" regardless of your boating knowledge.

You need to find out if the keel boats are really leaking, because that is a serious issue that would require professional assistance and resolution.  A search here on "Catalina Smile" discusses the keel, and wikipedia also has a discussion on that for C30s, which are very similar, try a Google search.

All the other stuff is fixable and would actually help you learn to know your boat, inside and out.

We don't know what you offered, or what you paid, or whether you're still in negotiations with the owner.  If so, price it out and deduct the damages.  All sorts of angles here for you, but we need to know more before we can even begin to comment on what you should do.

[Ken Juul]

It appears that the boat missed alot of TLC and/or the previous owners (PO) were not very good handymen.  How are the major systems?  The engine? The Sails? any expensive electronics? Hull, deck, mast/boom, standing and running rigging?  Those are the big expenses.  I have dealt with most of the things on your list on my similiar vintage boat.  You have all winter to research, learn new skills, buy tools  and do your repairs.  Some of the stuff will obviously need to be done before or after the cold.

Use the search function, use the tech wiki, read the Don Casey books.  It is a process that never stops. 

Welcome to the club!!

[Stu Jackson]

Others have reported on "what the surveyor didn't catch" --- see Steve Lyle's First Year Weblog (which I continue to recommend everyone read):  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,663.0.html

[Ron Hill]

Dan & Guys : If I were you I'd confront that guy with your list of the items that he missed.  If he "blows you off", I'd put out the word to other surveyors and marinas in your area that this guy is a HOAX as far as being a thourough marine surveyor.

Once again the best checker is YOU !!  You should be there while the survey is being done and make sure that every systen is turned on and operates properly.  I've seen more people burned by a surveyor because the boat was many miles away and they were NOT there while the survey was done.  If you were there you'd have probably found out that his knowledge of a C34 was equal to or less than yours !!   A thought

[Indian Falls]

Thank you all for the advice and recommendations. 

There's no looking back now.  We took ownership in August.  I will contact my surveyor and gently break the news that I'm dissatisfied and list why and leave it at that.

I wanted to put more info in the first post but it would have gotten quite long.

We put way too much faith in the Surveyor and way to much trust in the sellers word and I knew this as I was handing over the check to the former skipper.

This C34 is awesome and there was not another boat within 800 miles that we'd consider.  This one was as far away in Lake Ontario as it could be.  So even if I was going to find some things skipped by the surveyor needing repair I was willing to risk it.  The rest of the boat's condition is excellent, clean, un-abused.  I just had no Idea I'd get a survey stating near bristol and then finding such a mess to clean up.  I certainly would have tried to get the price down more.  I just hope the rest of the survey can be trusted. 

I still don't think we did too badly as it came with a symmetrical spinnaker, dodger, bimini, sail cover, gas grill, cockpit table, auto helm, wiring upgrade for the cockpit engine panel -maybe I missed a few minor things it has but there's no fancy electronics, gps, wind speed, just the basics.  We gave up 49k for her.  (i hope it's ok to reveal that, it's not like talking about salaries at work or anything is it?)

About half of the problems are resolved, I got a hot water tank for 200, reattached the blocks and plywood that it sits on to the hull, simplified and organized the rats nest of tube and wire in the galley, repaired the leak in the icebox, fixed the galley foot pump and remounted it where you can get your foot on it, Replace/repair the check valves. Replaced the circuit breakers which you can get at Allied Electronics for 15$each.  And I have a handle on the head and shower issue thanks to this forum.

I'm pretty handy I guess, I service industrial lasers, have a laser job shop, built my own home, cabin, garage,  ok  now I'm breaking my arm patting myself on the back... no more, I promise.

The only thing I'm intimidated by is the fiberglass work and the remedy for the leak at the keel bolts.
It's on the hard now and yes it leaks as bilge water ran out through the repaired spot.

I've seen all of the posts regarding this repair and I may be able to seal the bolts under the washers as desrcibed in one post, re-torque and just do some re-fairing on the outside.  I won't really know what to do until I dig into that repaired spot to see what's going on.  This forum is packed with info and what a delight it is to search for a problem and find 5 ways to go about solving it.  I can't find anything stating positively that there is no wood in my keel stub.  The mast is keel stepped.  Wish I knew for sure at this point.


Really the hardest thing so far has been selecting an appropriate name!!


Dan & Dar
1990 C34 997 ( name to be determined ) how 'bout "Dipped in Slip" ?