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Author Topic: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump  (Read 14959 times)

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Tom Clay

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Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« on: August 16, 2009, 09:28:15 AM »

Our 2006 MK11 had a headmate head in it and worked well up until this spring. I had a rebuild kit that I purchased 2 years ago so I rebuilt it in April thinking I would get another 2-3 years out of it. In june we spent 3 weeks on the boat in the Gulf Islands and the pump was getting weaker by the day, when we got back I started researching heads and found out the headmate was discontinued. Peggy on sailboatowners.com recommended a Raritan PHC pump and using our Headmate bowl and seat. We ordered the PHC pump 3 weeks ago and installed the new pump last week. The new pump fit great and covered all but one of the original mounting holes of the headmate. All hoses fit without any changes. It was almost a direct replacement for the headmate.

I wish I would of made this change at the first sign of the Headmate failing as the Admiral loves the ease of pumping the Raritan PHC. We are also using much less water flushing the head so our tank goes longer between pumpouts. This has been the best $250.00 we have spent on the boat, I highly recommend this change at the first sign of head problems.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 09:07:39 AM by Stu Jackson »
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Tom and Lynn Clay
2006 34' Hull #1760......Somewhere
Olympia, Wa.

tonywright

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 12:34:09 PM »

Tom

Thanks for the info on this. I am interested in doing the same, but it seems to be hard to find exact information online from Raritan. Can you let us know exactly what you ordered?

Thanks

Tony
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Tony Wright
#1657 2003 34 MKII  "Vagabond"
Nepean Sailing Club, Ottawa, Canada

Stu Jackson

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 12:50:19 PM »

Tony, I'm sure that Tom will reply, but you can also consider a complete replacement.  http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=111751

This is the total replacement, and source.  Tom kept the old bowl.  I have the same challenge ahead of me, and may simply opt to swap it all.  

See also: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=109474

A recent Mainsheet article had this written up with pictures and I believe if you do a search on PHC or PHII you'll find it on this MB, too.

OK, OK == I found it for you:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3797.0.html

If you have any more questions, ask Peggie directly at the link.  She's very helpful.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 09:05:04 AM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Lance Jones

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2009, 01:01:59 PM »

This may seem an odd question; but, how different is the Raritan then the Jabsco on the Mk I boats? Is it better or would you do a Jabsco replacement?
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Lance Jones
1988  C-34 Kitty's Cat
S/N 622

Stu Jackson

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2009, 01:20:53 PM »

OK, Lance, one more time.  The Jabsco is a piece of crap.  Period.  It is the world's worst toilet, which is why it is so ubiquitous.  Cheap.  

The WC Head Mate was middle of the road, superior to both the Jabsco and Groco, but far short of the Raritan PH models.  See Reply #6, here:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4829.0.html

One of the links I provided in my last post was to Peggie's discussion of one of the reasons WHY the Raritan is better.

That said, some people continue to replace their Jabscos with new Jabscos. Why??? Because they don't have to remount anything, no new lag bolts (some mistakenly think the bolts have nuts below!!!) and ease of connecting to the existing hoses.

Given that the PHC mates perfectly with the hoses I have, going to a PHC or PHII is a no brainer for me now that the HM is no longer being made.

I would NEVER recommend a Jabsco to anyone, even my worst enemy...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 01:35:59 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Lance Jones

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2009, 01:41:20 PM »

Sorry for upsetting you Stu. This was the first time I asked this question so I don't understand why I got the "One more time line?" I thought I had a legitimate question. Sorry.
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Lance Jones
1988  C-34 Kitty's Cat
S/N 622

Stu Jackson

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2009, 02:04:20 PM »

No, no, no, I apologize to YOU.  The "one more time" came from an assumption, albeit now apparently questionable, that questions about heads usually starts with a quick search on head or Jabsco.  These "ubiquitous" questions, not necessarily related to a C34, but for all boats, is a regular "feature" of this board.  I guess it's been a longer time than I remembered that since you joined us, Lance, no "basic head 101" questions have arisen.

You've been such a great contributor that it seems like you've always been here with us!  

Sorry again, but glad I could find the links for you to the earlier discussion, and more importantly, the picture of the PH model installed.  Hey, it really does fit! :clap

If anyone ever has a head question, I've recommended that you go to THE Source of information, Peggie Hall, at www.catalinaowners.com, Forums, Expert Forum, Head Mistress.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 02:07:06 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Lance Jones

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2009, 02:19:41 PM »

No worries. I'm just looking for potential projects as we have the original head from 1988. So, I'll follow up with a replacement PH11 in the next couple of months.
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Lance Jones
1988  C-34 Kitty's Cat
S/N 622

Mike Vaccaro

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 04:50:48 AM »

Lance,

We installed the PHII in our '88.  The foot print on the shelf will be slightly different than your factory installed head.  There's a write-up in the Mainsheet, but the two important points are that you'll likely have to re-drill the discharge hole through the vertical bulkhead to be able to route the hose properly, and you'll want to be careful drilling the lag bolts for the base mounting, since the liner is very close to the hull and you could accidentally drill into the hull (or worse!).  One other thing to consider is replacing all of the hose with a high-quality odor free type and adding an anti-siphon loop to the head intake line to prevent flooding on starboard tack if someone leaves the valves open! 

Cheers,

Mike
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1988 C34 Hull #563
Std Rig / Wing Keel

Stu Jackson

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2009, 11:57:02 AM »

One other thing to consider is .... adding an anti-siphon loop to the head intake line to prevent flooding on starboard tack if someone leaves the valves open! 

For new folks, please note this is NOT on the hose between the thru hull and the head.  It IS on the hose between the pump on the head and the head bowl.  Please carefully read the instructions that come with your head, 'cuz it's covered quite well there.  If you put one on the wrong hose, the head will not work.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Tom Clay

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2009, 11:25:01 PM »

Tony,

The link below will take you to the site where you can order the pump. We ordered the PHC LBA as our toilet was the headmate compact. Our bowl and seat fit fine on the new pump. I have 2 friends that have both replaced their Jabsco's after seeing how well the Raritan works. Their wives are now much happier.

http://shop.catalinaowners.com/detail.htm?group=1357&cat=1002
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Tom and Lynn Clay
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tonywright

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 08:29:35 AM »

Thanks Tom

That is exactly what I was looking for.

Tony
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Tony Wright
#1657 2003 34 MKII  "Vagabond"
Nepean Sailing Club, Ottawa, Canada

Ken Juul

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2009, 12:01:06 PM »

added to head section of the wiki
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Ken & Vicki Juul
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tommyt

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2010, 03:59:28 PM »



I have a question for the masters on heads. My boat, a 2004, has the Headmate 1460. I was doing a rebuild and the nut for the pump shaft must have been cracked as it broke when I hand tightened it.

My options now, as the Headmate is no longer made, are many. The cheapest (part of the problem with them) is a compact Jabsco Twist and Lock. The alternative that I like is the Raritan discussed in this thread. Tom put one in a 2006 and I assume it replaces the same head that I have in my 2004. In looking at the schematic for the bolt on of the Jabsco bowl to the Raritan body it does not seem to match my bowl. Tom, or anyone, do you know if the 1460 bowl will fit on the Rariatan PHC?????

Thanks
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Tom Mallery, C34 #1697, 2004 MKII, Splash Dance

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Re: Headmate Head replacement with PHC Pump
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2010, 08:41:32 AM »

Reading the forum thread citing Peggy Halls recommendation, I changed out our Groco HF (which needed another rebuild kit) to the Raritan PHC two weeks ago and wholeheartedly agree with Tom - this is one of the best upgrades for the boat. :D I had to drill out another hole for the discharge line and two additional holes for the new base but it is well worth the minor effort. It works so well. Thanks to everyone who shared this thought on the list.
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Paul Leible
1987 C34 "ALBREEN", SR/FK, M25XP
Sailing Lake Champlain
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