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[Stu Jackson]

M35 Fuel Bleeding - Fuel Pump Tied into Glow Plug & Oil Pressure

This also applies to some later M25XP and XPB engines.

Dave Spencer directly asked a question about bleeding newer engines.  His question is here: 

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6429.0.html

This question is kind of a "philosophical" one.

In 2007 we had discussed this in a very looong thread:  Hard Starting/ Possible glow plug problem?? M35 Engines & Fuel Pump Wiring

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3347.45.html

Reply #52 on page 4 of that topic begins to discuss the wiring to the fuel pump, how it works, issues with bleeding, and continues to end up describing exactly the issue that Dave addressed in his question.

Some of you MAY have had this issue, hope this helps.

Update:  In December 2011, Ray Irvine reported: "Also the solenoid that is used for the glow plugs is a low duty cycle version - the duty cycle is limited by the hold coil.  This means that if you hold the glow plugs on for too long - like get distracted with conversation etc - you can burn out the hold coil.   I am about to replace mine with a continuous duty cycle solenoid - for $10.00 more dollars."  This is for an M35 in a Mark II, and for those who have built-in OEM solenoids on their engines.  Many of us have added solenoids on our older M25 series engines.

In this thread: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8245.0.html, there was an IMPORTANT REMINDER: DON'T hold your glow plugs ON for longer than the ENGINE MANUAL states.

In September 2012, PK had difficulties with starting his engine.  Read about it here:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7121.0.html

It also SUCKS when you want to pump out your fuel tank, for ANY reason.

[Stu Jackson]

Pro Mariner Flyback Chargers

Get them off your boat.  They are a FIRE HAZARD

Reply #6:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3716.0.html

How Many Times Do We Have to Warn You? 

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5179.0.html

While Terry seems to think his problem was with lightning, it sure seems that having to go through so many ProMariner chargers is still OK.  Nonsense!  Read all the links in Reply #3 and Reply #5 and your head will be spinning until next month!   

[Stu Jackson]

WIRING HARNESS UPGRADE - Yet ANOTHER Reminder

Maine Sail has contributed another precious post on this issue:  Universal Wiring Harness:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6682.0.html  Please click on the links to read the details.

Also, the original post on this Critical Upgrades topic and Reply #21 gives you even more information.

Plus this one: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4546.15.html  This was started in 2008 and has received a helpful and important "update" in 2014.

Please also understand the "issues" involved in the Critical Upgrade:

The "Euro" strips are a very convenient way to make the connections to replace the trailer pins without having a more difficult time getting in there to strip and crimp connections on the wires for new butt connections. Your boat, your choice. I didn't mention this before, but my PO had the terminal strips installed well before I bought our '86 boat in '98 and the one in the engine compartment is still working just fine.

There are three ways to make the new wiring connections:

1. The "Euro" terminal strip provided by Seaward when you buy the harness. The harness is the wiring itself. The strips are there to replace the stupid trailer connectors. You can replace the connectors WITHOUT replacing the wiring itself (the "harness"). Many have done so.

2. Butt connectors instead of the "Euro" strip.  This is essentially the "hard wired" to the engine method suggested by Ron.

3. Terminal strips with ring terminals on each end of the wires, as suggested by Maine Sail. This method requires crimping, just like the butt connector method.

Also, remember that there are two purposes to this whole replacement: 1) getting rid of the trailer connections; 2) replacing the ammeter with a voltmeter to eliminate the long charging run in way undersized wiring to the cockpit panel.

[Added 12/5/2011]

Here's another discussion about connections for the harness and whether or not new wiring is "required."

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6714.0.html

Here are some more Gummy Bear pictures

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8681.0.html

[Stu Jackson]

M25 ALTERNATOR PIVOT BOLTS

It helps to examine the details of your engine.  Regularly.  Based on an earlier post in this topic, we identified a cracked alternator casing.

Further internet sleuthing found Maine Sail's excellent writeup about this and the earlier update to the C34 Tech wiki about the alternator bracket upgrade for M25 engines.  Many thanks to E. Herlihy who posted on sailnet and the Ericson forum.

If you have an M25XP, it wouldn't hurt to check your pivot bolt, too.  Same bracket, could have the same "undersized" bolt, don't know, but why not check?

Details here:     
Careful Engine Inspection & M25 Alternator Pivot Bolts  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5127.0.html

One important trick, from Maine Sail:  use through bolts for the bracket connections instead of just the longer bolts suggested by Ron, same idea only even better.  Check that link for pictures.

Adjusting the New Bracket (from Maine Sail)

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/universal_alternator_bracket

Reply #7 has my better aligned bracket:  https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7917.msg55150.html#msg55150


Please see Reply #40 below, too.

[Ron Hill]

This is an OLD OLD fix about securing the top split bearings on the Hood 915 Genoa continuous roller furling system!

It first came out in the Mainsheet Tech Notes back in 1989 !!

PROBLEM - The top bearing of the Hood 915 system consists of 2 pieces.  They were originally install and held in place with a hammer rivet in each split piece that was inserted from the top. This rivet was supposed to spread and keep those bearings in place from compression.  

Owners soon found that they could easily pop out and usually went overboard.

FIX - is simply to take a short stainless screw 3/8 inch long and insert it thru the side of the top furling tube and into the bearing on each side.  The screws will hold the bearings in place and keep them from popping out!!  The rivets just remain in place.

[Stu Jackson]

Gooseneck Failure

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7127.0.html


Also includes some ideas for improving the arrangement.

https://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/957/gooseneck-casting-assy--c-28-c-30-c-34-c-36.cfm

Ken Heyman also reports tons of hits on a simple search on "gooseneck."

Added 2018: 

Here’s a link to some pics Dave Spencer took when he had his gooseneck apart.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7127.msg49169.html#msg49169

[Ron Hill]

Look at the short section of hose that takes raw water from the anti siphon valve (vented loop) and connects it to the the exhaust riser.  That raw water (mixes with the hot exhaust gases) before the cooled exhaust enters the muffler.

Problem is that the STIFF wire reinforced hose installed by the factory, transmits all of the engine vibration strain onto that nipple weld causing it to fracture.

Fix is to remove that 5/8" hose and replace it with a more flexible nylon reinforced hose.

The more flexible hose takes most of the strain off of that welded nipple!!

[Ron Hill]

In the raw water pump whether it be an Oberdoffer, Sherwood or a Johnson there are "weep holes" between the water side and oil side of the pump.  These are there to let you know if the seals (on either side) are starting to leak.  

Problem : Seal failure - It is usually the water side that starts with a seep of a few drops and as the seal continues to wear the few drops can and will turn into a stream.  The leaking water runs down the front of the engine below the pump, the oil pan and finally to the floor under the engine and then eventually into the bilge.
The water will start to cause rust and corrosion on the front of the engine and can and will RUST a hole in the oil pan!!  If you are in salt water the corrosion will happen much sooner that later, but it will happen!

Fix : Remove the pump and replace the leaking seal.  You should also inspect the stainless drive shaft for any scoring or scratches.  If you just replace only the seals and continue to use a scored/scratched stainless drive shaft, you will have accomplished - NOTHING!

I wrote an article on this topic back in the mid 1990s titled - "Isn't it a shame that you have to pull the engine and replace the oil pan, because you didn't notice that drip of water??"  

Guys, look at the engine while it is running for leaks of water, oil, coolant and fuel!!

There is also a C34 tech wiki which has a link back to this board.  Both have pictures.  (Stu 10/20/13)

[billmathus]

Digging into my 1988 Catalina 34 electrical system I have determined that the Engine Wiring Harness upgrade was not done by previous owners.  I have studied the info provide herein, and called Seaward today only to discover they do not offer the harness kit any longer.  BUT, Dennis Igarashi  - cell - (626) 374-6422 does offer the kits and the harness - apparently he used to be a part of Seaward and as moved on but has an inventory of parts..  The kit is now $54 (subject to change) and the harness - listed in this site as costing $35 back when everyone else did the upgrade - is now $140 (subject to change).

Added by Stu 11/13/13:

Bill, Seaward was bought out by Whale, who no longer sell to the public.  Dennis used to work for Seaward and is selling off the remaining stock he accumulated.  Thanks for his phone #, I posted about this earlier.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7405.0.html

[Ron Hill]

Guys : The important things about this Wiring Harness upgrade - is to get rid of the trailer plug connectors!! and reroute the alternator output!
 
These trailer connections were made so it added efficiency (took less time) to install an engine into the boat hull while it was on the factory production line!!

Save yourself $$$ and hard wire one side to the other and skip the "euro connectors".  As I have mentioned before in posts and in Mainsheet articles - I removed my origional old engine twice and then installed a new engine and each time I disconnected/reconnected the wires at the engine (not from the euro connectors)!!

Hard wire to the engine and the engine instrument panel by cutting one wire at a time and reconnecting to the mate on the other side. You can (as I would recommend) cut, strip & solder and cover with heat shrink or you can use a butt connector.
Just get rid of the trailer connections, as they are the problem.

The other part of the upgrade you MUST also do is to reroute the output from the alternator to the stud on the starter solenoid with a short piece of marine grade wire (I'd recommend #4 gage).

A few thoughts

[Stu Jackson]

ALIGNING M25 & M25XP ALTERNATOR BRACKETS

Maine Sail's newest contribution:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7917.0.html

I've also included a link to this thread in the Tech wiki on the M25 alternator bracket warning article.

Also see Reply #33 (above, in this topic):  Alternator Pivot Bolts

[Stu Jackson]

Alternator Belt Tensioning Tool 

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3667.0.html

and James ' homemade one:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,10338.0.html

[KWKloeber]

Replace the fuse holder from the start button to the starter solenoid

Here's two of the many posts on this issue with pictures:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4556.0.html  and http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1637.0.html

The SYMPTOMS:  NOTHING happens when you hit the start key or button.  Usually originally diagnosed as a bad key or button, usually it is NOT.

Also see Reply #24 below:  Starter Problems - bad ground lug connection for negatives to the engine.


Added to wiki. KJ

The fuse on the starter solenoid wire to the "S" terminal of the starter solenoid is for "show" and can actually be eliminated before the fuse holder corrodes and there's a "no crank" issue.  It has no value because it's at the WRONG END of the wiring harness -- if there's a short in the harness, the fuse stays intact as the harness wire melts and burns when you hit the start button.  On models after the M-25XP (ie, XPB, 35B) Westerbeke realized this and eliminated that fuse -- in favor of a circuit breaker on the 12v power feed TO the engine panel.  That (breaker) instead protects the ENTIRE harness, panel wiring, etc.

Ken K.

[Stu - this was Post #15 on page 2]

[KWKloeber]

Alternator Belt Tensioning Tool 

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3667.0.html

[attachthumb=#]

An addition to the belt jack that Stu has the link for info to above, this BELT TENSION GAUGE works really well, as posted by a few of your C-30 brethren.

[attachthumb=#]

There's two sizes - you want the smaller for up to 7/8" wide belts.

NAPA currently (9/2014) carries it as p/n NBH KR1.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Belt-Tension-Gauge/_/R-NBGKR1_0006447252

As well as Amazon, Goodyear etc as a Gates belt tension gage
http://www.amazon.com/Gates-91107-Belt-Tension-Tester/dp/B000MUTAGS#productDetails

And is also marketed as a Dayco "Krickit" tensioner, sold by Pep Boys, Rock Auto, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DZYfYFccAM

We know how product offering and links change, so if the weblinks come up dead, just search your favorite browser for a Kricket KR1 v-belt tension gauge.


Cheers,
Ken K

[Stu Jackson]

ADDITIONAL Engine Wiring Harness Ideas from Ken Kloeber

This is a draft with a great explanation of the description and functions of the wiring.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8406.0.html

February 2017

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,9302.0.html