Water in Engine Oil

[prh77]

I have been around Universals for many years and have seen my share of pump water and oil seal failures, but in all cases the fluid escaped out the weep holes and just made a mess.

[Stewartn]

First thing I did after the incident was to have the dealer (one of the East Coast biggest and long time Catalina dealers) call Westerbeke on my behalf. Their answer was, "...the raw water pump..replace it with new and the injection pump may be hung up".... Shortly after that my mechanic independently found the cause to be the Raw Water Pump. Yesterday, I had an independent marine surveyor investigate the damage, cause and repair. He also came to the same conclusion .. the Raw water pump. I believe it.  Now, it's true that after 10 years the weep holes look corroded and plugged to me which would explain no drips.

Water Pump replaced and installed, Fuel Injection Pump cleaned and rebuilt as necessary awaiting re-installatiuon, Valve cover removed and valve train inspected- still contaminated after 5 oil changes and filters. Boat now goes to work dock for complete engine flushing and inspection. Total repairs are "pending inspection" .

I understand S..T happens. I just wish that Universal, Westebeke, Hansen Marine or someone or something had put another caution label in the book or on the engine or sent a service bulletin (this is not the first failure of that pump) to inspect that pump every ...hrs and make sure the weep holes were clear.

Thinking seriously about GOLF.

[Ron Hill]

Stewart : Thanks for the come back.  Much to my disgust I have a Sherwood on my new engine (M25XPB), and noted over the years that the Sherwood has a cast iron section that contains the weep holes!!

This is definitely an item for the "Critical Items" listing.

Guess the only sure way of checking that those weep holes are clear, is to remove the entire pump from the engine when changing the impeller and look at them !?! 
I did spray some BO-Shield on the outside of that iron body to keep the outside from rusting (as I've seen), but the rust problem is really from the inside. 
Inspection is the only way to know.  A few thoughts

[Jack Hutteball]

The failed seals on my three Sherwood pumps have always been obvious when they first started leaking.  Always rusty water drops under the front of the engine.  Seems Like one would have to ignore that a long time in order for the weep holes to completely clog up with rust.  I also have painted the the entire pump with the "blue" color of the M35B engine, which helps to see any rust stains emanating from the weep holes.
Jack

[Ken Juul]

added to the Critical upgrade page on the wiki

[Ron Hill]

Guys, Susan and D.Gill : Checking the raw water pump is critical.  
All pumps have internal two lip seals.  One seal keeps the oil in the engine and the other seal keeps the water in the raw water pump housing.  In between these seals are two or more "weep holes".  These weep holes are there to let you know when one of these seals are leaking.

M25 & M25XP engines : These engines usually have an Oberdorfer RW pump (some early models may have a Sherwood or a Johnson RW pump).  The Oberdorfer (could be of a couple of models) has a entire bronze body with the weep holes in the center.  There are two paper gaskets, a thick one on the engine side and a paper thin one the face plate over the impeller.  The only time that I've experienced a oil side lip seal leaking is because it was cocked when installed.  The water lip seal usually only last about 200 hours, because the raw water isn't as good a lubricant as the oil is for the oil lip seal.  To replace the water side lip seal you need to also remove and replace the oil seal as well.  There are a number of Mainsheet tech note articles on this topic.

Also here:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6766.0.html  [Stu - 1/25/15]

When the water side lip seal starts to leak you'll find raw water from the bottom weep hole leaking and running down the starboard front side of the engine.  This water especially if it's saline will rust out the oil pan, so vigilance is needed to catch the dripping early on.  The body being bronze will show signs of green corrosion.

M35A & M35B engines : These engines have a Sherwood raw water pumps.  The Sherwood's also come in a couple of models.  The bodies of this pump are not all bronze and as Stewart found out can and will have the weep holes rust shut. The Sherwood does have brass/bronze plates that are on each end of the cast iron body, but essentially the same innard components as the Oberdorfer.  Sherwood's generally use "0" rings to seal the brass/bronze plates rather than paper gaskets, but the gasket that attaches it to the engine is "paper". The weeping from a Sherwood is caused by the same problems as the Oberdorfer - wear.

Engine Manufactures tend to favor the Sherwood over the Oberdorfer, because it pumps more water volume (larger pump housing, and impeller diameter).  The Sherwood has double+ the impeller blades of the Oberdorfer.

A few thoughts

[Hawk]

Ron,

I just pulled this off of the Sherwood Raw Water Pump thread as Craig posted it to show the Sherwood pump parts schematic. Looks to me there is a gasket beetween the wear plate and the pump body which is what I found, I believe. I suppose there's another one if you take the whole pump body off the engine. Or am I missing something yet again...Craig?

Hawk


This shows a parts breakdown: http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/catalogs/catalog_group.php?owner=mdd&page_ident=200142-58&model=M-25%20/%20M-25XP%20/%20M-25XPA&manufacturer=Universal&title=Sherwood%20Water%20Pump%20-%20New%20-%20302648&quant_position=&catalog=200142&printparts=200142&printservice=200151&printoperators=200157&comment1=This%20pump%20is%20no%20longer%20available%20as%20a%20complete%20stand%20alone%20pump%20unit%20(302648%20-%20NLA).%20%20Use%20this%20diagram%20to%20order%20replacement%20parts%20for%20this%20pump.%20%20To%20replace%20this%20pump,%20order%20kit%20number%20302837(kit%20includes%20a%20replacement%20pump).

[Ron Hill]

Hawk : You are absolutely correct that item #18 on that model Sherwood is a gasket. 
Never make generalities about anything, where Catalina is concerned !!