Modification to bow nav lights with gennaker rigging

[Tom Madden]

i'm in the process of buying a gennaker for my 2007 34ft MK II and rigging my boat to fly this cruising spinnaker. 

the sail maker has pointed out to me the the bow pulpit nav lights are likely candidate to get torn off or broken with gennaker sheets as the boat is jibbed. also, i know this to be the case as i saw this happen recently on a norhtern channel island cruise (on a 42ft catalina i was crewing on.) i was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on steps i can take to protect my bow nav lights from the gennaker sheets? 

i have thought of two ideas: a) have a bracket frabicated around the nav lights to keep the gennaker sheets away or 2) remount nav lights on the bow deck, totally out of the way.  i got these ideas after walking around the marina i'm looking at other sailboats.

any input is appreciated.  i'd like to thank you all in advance, thanks so much.

[Ron Hill]

Tom : I've never really paid attention to where the bow NAV lights are on a MKII.  If they are in the same place as a MK I (welded on a bracket just aft and hanging below the bow pulpit) I've haven't had a problem in 21 years with my cruising spinnaker deployed ?!?  Besides, I fly my sail (and think most of us) with the tack well above the bow pulpit, so I'm not too sure about what your sailmaker is worried about????
For what it's worth. 

[Tom Madden]

Ron... thank you ... it sounds like our nav lights are in the same place.  maybe i'm concerned about nothing, thanks for the input.  tom

[Jon Schneider]

Tom, I concur with Ron's POV.  I don't have 21 years of experience, but in my five years, I can't speak of anything that's even come close to mishap with the nav lights.  I actually don't really see how it would happen. 

[Lance Jones]

I tend to agree with Ron & Jon. However, if you DO decide to modify the lights, try the solution I used on my Capri 25 that I race. I purchased a set of the Hella Marine LED eyebrow lights. They are USCG approved, draw a 10th of the power and last forever. The modification took about 2 hours from start to finish.

[Jim Hardesty]

Tom, what are you going to use for a halyard?  Have you a dedicated spinacher halyard set forward of the forstay?  Or you going to use the 2nd jib halyard?  If you use the jib halyard it will jibe much as a geona, inside the forestay.  If you have a spinacher halyard, the sail will go outside of the forestay.  I don't have a spinacher,yet, on my 34.  I will buy one when I find a good used or the boat bucks become availible.  I would appriciate to find out how others have set up.
On my previous boat an S2 9.2(30') the spinacher was set up forward of the forestay.  So the lazy sheet went all the way arround the bow and was just a pain.  I'm not a racer, so I just used one sheet.  To jib just furled the spinacher with the sock, walked the sheet arround, then relaunched the spinacher.  Realy not as much trouble as it sounds, I'm a cruiser so the jibes are few.
May all your sails be downwind.
Jim

[Wayne]

Tom, I have a gennaker type asym, set up on a spinnaker halyard (in front of the headstay); tack of sail clips to the bail on the anchor roller, inside of the pulpit.  My sail has a fairly high clew.  When I jibe, I frequently find my lazy sheet has become involved with the factory schafer jib furler; never a problem with the nav lights.

[Tom Madden]

Jim

thanks for the great input.  i will rig my boat with a dedicated gennaker / spinnaker halyard forward of the forstay.  the asymmetrical spinnaker (aka gennaker ) i'm getting is designed to be used that way.  my sheets will be 70 ft long to allow the lazy sheet to get around. wind angle is also important in staring the jibe.  i've done this maneuver on other boats and have seen some good training videos on this on both UK Sails and North Sails web sites.  please contact me via email if you'd like more info on these training videos.

btw, i see you sail out of Erie, PA.  i'm from Pittsburgh, but now live in Newport Beach, CA.  i understand Lake Erie can be challenging.  thanks for the input, i appreciate it.

tom

[Tom Soko]

Wayne,
According to Gerry Douglas (and many others), the tack pennant for the A-chute should NOT be attached to the bail on the anchor roller.  The bail is not designed for those loads.  You might be able to attach it to the inboard end of the anchor roller, or one of the bow cleats, but not the bail.

[Wayne]

Hmmm.  I called Catalina and talked to Kent before setting mine up, and he said it was OK.  Now I'm worried.  Anyone else out there with some thoughts on this question?

[sail4dale]

OMG  I've been using the bale connection for over 5 years ..... now I'm worried 

Of course when the wind really winds up, I don't have the genniker out but it hasn't seemed like a problem till now

[Craig Illman]

Wayne, et. al. - If you ever replace your bow roller, you should see how easy it peels off, after you remove the fasteners, with a little tension on the spare jib halyard attached to the bail. I think there's a lot of force on the tack to pull your nine ton boat through the water. Compare those little bail bolts to how your winch is attached to the deck. 

Craig

[Ron Hill]

Guys & Susan : I'm not too sure that I would attach the tack pennant way out on a bow roller bale either.

Those of us with a 1986/87/88 C34 origionally had two small anchor rollers on either side of the bow fitting.  Those rollers have retaining pins above them and those rollers are an integral part of the bow stem fitting and VERY strong.  Most of us with those year boats have modified one of those sides to mount a true bow anchor roller. 
I always secure my cruising spinnaker tack pennant to the pin on that remaining small anchor fitting.  I've gotten caught in a couple of big blows and have never had a problem.  A thought

[Wayne]

Thinking about the tack attachment a little more, I just realized that I installed a kind of funky bobstay.  A large turnbuckle is bolted onto my anchor roller stainless steel fitting just below where the bail attaches; the other end of the turnbuckle is bolted to the bottom of the heavy ss stem fitting.  So my anchor roller is not really being pulled upward at all.  Plus, the snap shackle that I'm using isn't oversized; in case of excessive load I'm pretty sure it would be the weakest link.  Without my bobstay, I would be pretty concerned about strength . . .

[jkar]

Agree, at least on my '87 never had a second thought about attaching it to a bail through the "spare" holes on the anchor roller.  I have a bail centered this way for races that penalize for attachment other then to the bow and a carbon fiber "sprit" mounted out 18" for those that do not.  Neither have been a problem, even in blows up to 25kts.  In fact the clew shackle gave way before the tack ever did.  There can be loads, but that can be compensated for by angle.  Remember, your tack line should be straight up and down or slightly to windward, if it is to leeward you are spilling energy.  Either raise the tack, ease the sheet or drive down.  Any of that will reduce the load.  The heavier it is, the deeper you go or put the genoa back out as the a-sail isn't helping you any.  As for snagging the nav lights, yep, been there done that, but unless you are not paying attention and sheet hard, the sheet will undo itself usually.  Never had them rip off or remotely be a problem.  They tended to be in the "way" more on inside gybes versus outside gybes.  So do outside gybes and you will be home free 95% of the time or if you have a "sock" douse, gybe, re-deploy and never worry about it.  It sounds like it is slow, but it is actually quite fast and much easier when sailing short handed.  Not to the bow cleat, that is inside the pulpit and will give you nothing but grief.