New England Ropes VPC

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Hawk

Now having a nice new North Sail main it looks like the old halyard is not up to the task. Therefore I'm following this thread closely. Being a bit surprised by the varied opionions on sizing (never mind brand) I looked at the APS site recomended above.

Interestingly, the site describes Crystalyne-Vale sizing as 10mm = 7/16.
The New England V-100 line is shown as 10mm = 3/8.

Up here we switched to metric a few decades ago, so last time I checked 1/16 equaled 1.5mm..............Hmmmmmm

I must be missing something...........
Tom
Tom Hawkins - 1990 Fin Keel - #1094 - M35

mainesail

Personally I really dislike Sta-Set X. I find it stiff, does not like winches, has low "winchability", :D pills horribly and is still quite stretchy. I have had it on two boats and will never use it again. New England Ropes VPC is a good budget choice alternative.

Contrary to popular belief (gotta love marketing) StaSet X is also still fairly stretchy compared to other halyard line. It stretches 2.4% or 14.4 inches in 50 feet. My halyards are 120 long. 30+ inches of stretch is a lot of scaloping..

I do like regular StaSet for sheets but if you are racing in light air the Sta-Set can get awfully heavy and weigh down the sail..

Unfortunately most US sailors use NER mostly because there was a family connection / relation between the owner of New England Ropes and West Marine. It's unfortunate that many sailors have only had access to NER when there are plenty of other less costly options. Unfortunately this relationship between WM & NER has forced companies like Yale Cordage to pursue other markets and put very little effort into the marine market a;though this is changing soon. It's too bad because Yale makes some great stuff as does Nova Braid out of Canada and Samson.. NER has been sold so it will be interesting to see how long this "relationship" with WM lasts!!

Other alternatives to StaSet X:

StaSet X (parallel polyester core) = 2.4% stretch and is about $86.00 per 100ft for 3/8" (Best source Hall Spars).

Nova Braid XLE (braided polyester core) = 2.25% stretch and is about $70.00 per 100ft for 3/8". (Best sources is Rope Warehouse or Cajun Trading Co.)

Samson XLS (braided polyester core) = 2% stretch and about $86.00 per 100ft for 3/8". (best source usually Defender)

NER VPC (braided Vectran/Olefin core) = 1.65% stretch and about $89.00 per 100ft for 10mm (roughly 3/8"). (best source Defender)

Samson XLS Extra (braided Dynema/Polyolefin core) = .7% stretch and about $133.00 per 100ft for 3/8" (best sources Hall Spars, Defender or Annapolis Performance Sailing)

Yale Vizzion (braided Vectran core) = .8% stretch and about $184.00 per 100ft for 3/8" (best source Hamilton Marine)

Sta-Set X - Parallel Polyester Core (why it sucks):

Yale Vizzion - Braided Vectran Core:

New England Ropes VPC - Braided Vectran/Olefin Core:

New Yale Yacht Braid - Less stretch than Sta-Set X same price as regular Sta-Set better jacket



Please keep in mind that most cruising sail luffs are not low stretch. You can do serious damage with these ultra low stretch high tech lines if not careful. Adding that extra crank, like you do with Sta-Set X, can do severe damage to the sail so be careful if you upgrade to ultra low stretch lines...
-Maine Sail
Casco Bay, ME
Boat - CS-36T

https://marinehowto.com/

Craig Illman

Mainsail - Thank you! I think that's just the sort of information most of us were interested in. I greatly appreciate your contributions.

Craig

Steve McGill

Maine Sail,

Thanks for listing the possible alternatives, I currently have SaSet X for my halyards and probable will
change them out when they reach their end of life or I end it for them.

I normall have only have about 60 feet of my halard under tension when the sail is set, regardless
14-16" of stretch may be more then I would like.

Thanks,

Steve

CLARITY 1988 #588 TRWK (sold 8/2023 after 17 yrs)
Chesapeake, Herring Bay, MD

Hawk

OK, leaving price aside, what's the preferred choice between the NER T900 and the Sampson XLS Extra?
Both are the low stretch I believe.
Tom Hawkins - 1990 Fin Keel - #1094 - M35

mainesail

Quote from: Hawk on February 01, 2009, 08:39:58 PM
OK, leaving price aside, what's the preferred choice between the NER T900 and the Sampson XLS Extra?
Both are the low stretch I believe.

Other than a LOT of money the only difference that really matters is .1% stretch.

NER - T-900 = Dynema/Technora = stretch 0.6% or 3.6" in 50 - Price = 100 feet of 3/8" roughly $239.00

Samson - XLS Extra = Dynema/Polyolefin = stretch 0.7% or 4.2" in 50 feet - Price = 100 feet of 3/8" roughly $150.00
-Maine Sail
Casco Bay, ME
Boat - CS-36T

https://marinehowto.com/

Hawk

Thanks Maine. The Sampson XLS Extra is available to me wholesale.
Tom Hawkins - 1990 Fin Keel - #1094 - M35

David Sanner

#37
It's never been that obvious to me how much stretch I will actually see in a line
for a  given application.  Manufacturers typically give a percentage stretch
for a percentage of a given lines breaking strength, such as 10%, 20%.

This makes it difficult to directly compare as you need to do the math.
For example VPC 10mm line which they call 3/8"  (3/8 is closer to 9.5mm)
has a breaking strength of 7500 lbs.  Samon's XLS Extra 3/8" line breaks
at 4600lbs ... so you can't just compare directly how % stretch at 20%
of breaking strength....   one thing this does say to me however is that
the VPC is a lot stronger than XLS Extra which probably means they have
more of the good stuff blended into the core.

Now to the application.  60' of halyard stretch vs. 10' of jib sheet...
and what are typical loads (lbs & time)?  And the number I've yet
to see quantified is how much will they 'creep' ... for a halyard application
that will be loaded up for hours I'll take a little extra initial stretch as
long as it doesn't creep so much that I have to retention it every hour.
I would think VPC would have less creep than the Samson blend since it's
Vectran instead of Dyneema as well as quite a bit stronger.  Perhaps the
Samson blend handles better?

Here's a list (w/ images) of available lines: http://moonblink.info/ropes.cgi
And a description of different hi-tech fibers:  http://moonblink.info/fibres.html

Also, NER has this nice graphic that compares their 8mm lines in a  typical halyard situation:
(link which is a bit easier to read: http://www.neropes.com/Images/line_stretch_lg.gif )
David Sanner, #611 1988, "Queimada" San Francisco Bay

Hawk

Very helpful information.

On an older thread regarding the traveler upgrade Stu talked about the control lines and recomended to go down to 5/16 size. I picked up the Garhauer upgrade kit in Seattle on the weekend and wonder what type of line I ought to use. I'm thinking the low stretch Sampson XLS Extra. Any thoughts?

I know its only a traveler line but may as well put the best line on for the job.....
Hawk
Tom Hawkins - 1990 Fin Keel - #1094 - M35

Stu Jackson

Hawk, the traveler line is NOT worth any low stretch line.  StaSet (regular) is just fine.  Think about it:  the position is important but it keeps moving anyway during a sail.  Put the $$ to better use.  Glad you read about the 5/16, you'll be much happier with it.
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

David Sanner


My thinking is that you want stretch as it will minimize the
shock load during a jibe. (and since the normal load on line is
so low stretch is not really a factor anyway)

Just get the line that runs the smoothest and is the
easiest to pull on when the wind is blowing.

When I did my upgrade a few years back I ordered
my upgraded traveler with 3/8" line... good price.
It's decent, standard polyester line.



David Sanner, #611 1988, "Queimada" San Francisco Bay

Stu Jackson

What happens with the 3/8 line is that over time it expands in diameter and binds on the sheaves on the traveler.  That's why we use 5/16.
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Hawk

Thanks fellas.

Stu, you also mentioned in an old thread that your traveler control lines were 27' long per side because of the extra blocks. I take it they would be even longer if I wish to mount a swivel cam on the aft coach house and take the lines back to the wheel so I can adjust the traveler from the wheel. I can't recall if yours run all the way back.

Does anyone know the ideal lengths when running the control lines back to the wheel.
Thanks,
Hawk
Tom Hawkins - 1990 Fin Keel - #1094 - M35

Stu Jackson

Yes, you're right, mine only go back to the aft end of the coachroof.  So, add the distance from there to where ya wanna have them hang.  But don't depend on MY measurements.  Do the math. And on YOUR boat. I figured the 27 feet based on where the cars were when furthest set, measured the distance and the number of times the line went back and forth through the sheaves, and added the distance back.  C'mon...
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Hawk

Stu,
Oh I'll measure them myself for sure...likely "thrice". If its anywhere near 27' plus my additional length then I might have half a chance at getting it right.

Isn't it: "measure twice - cut once"

Thanks, Hawk
Tom Hawkins - 1990 Fin Keel - #1094 - M35