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Author Topic: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise  (Read 18236 times)

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waterdog

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2008, 01:08:22 PM »

Excellent input guys.   I think I will take the feedback and draft my final list and repost it below so it's a concise record for reference for others down the road.   Then I just need to layer in the Kubota part numbers against the bits I can buy at the tractor store...

Stu - exhaust elbow is probably original, water pump is probably original.  The engine had only 500 hours in its first 18 years.   The next 500 hours only took me two seasons...

Already bought the battery monitor - my second favourite upgrade of the summer (just behind the cockpit shower).   

What's a "big array" for solar?   I'm thinking I will want something like 250W total...
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Steve Dolling
Former 1988 #804, BlackDragon - Vancouver BC
Now 1999 Manta 40 cat

Stu Jackson

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2008, 05:18:02 PM »

Steve,

Exhaust riser - Had a friend with hull #214 (1986) [Bill Eddy] do his (voluntarily!)  after Duane Quick, Irish Whiskey, #635, 1988, had his fail during a return trip from Monterey out in the ocean in April 2007.  Both, I'm guessing, with between 700 and 1400 hours.  Once upon a time Dave Davis suggested that we keep track of when failures occurred, but it turns out that since so many exhaust risers have been made from so many different materials, it's hard to make recommendations based on engine hours alone.  Mine failed in 2003 at 1430 hours - one tends to remember those biggies!!! :D  So treat yourself to a treat - you can do it with proper preparation because we redid ours because of blow-by earlier this year.  We didn't replace the whole thing, just re-bedded the flange end, but that's where most of the work is anyway.  In Canada our skipper's input is that it's less expensive to make your own than to buy from the factory because of import duties, Charles Holder in Vancouver discussed that way back (see the FAQs for lengthy discussions on this issue).

Solar panel array - To read more, do a search on "solar panels" (use the """" marks) and read the input from jentine and Stephen Butler.  Only your personal energy budget can decide what you need, since generators, engine run time and plugging in all affect the sizing.  Depends on how "away from it all" you want to be, and what experiences you've had on your prior "out there" trips.  "Member, it's hotter down there, so think about refrigeration carefully.  As far as I know, Juan's #451 is in Mexico doing well with the original air cooled Alder Barbour.

Water pump?  Geez, don't remind me... :cry4`
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

ssk

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2008, 10:15:46 PM »

Think about extra sail slug slides for your primary wind engine.  My dockside neighbors went on last year's Baja Ha Ha and spent 6 months cruising down around to Banderas Bay.  Halfway down Baja they had a puff rip their main off most of the nylon slugs.  They managed to radio panhandle enough to stich on with a reef till they were able to find a few that fit in Cabo.  Of course if you have track cars...take one or two extras.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 10:18:18 PM by Sid Kushner »
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arthur

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2008, 06:21:27 AM »

Waterdog,

Everyone has opinions on what you should take for your Long Cruise and so do I.  Take the minimal.

If you believe your engine is in such bad shape, fix it now.  Install all the parts everyone has told you to buy as it'll be easier to install them now.  Then just take some basic parts everyone carries:  impeller for water pump, belt for generator, WD 40, duck tape and baggies for leftover food.  In the past two years I've taken a 490 and a 450 mile cruise (fresh water) and nothing failed; my Catalina is a 1997.

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waterdog

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2008, 10:10:45 AM »

Arthur:

There is a lot of merit in what you say.  If I load up with all the stuff that people think I ought to have (must have liferaft - Solas certified offshore, can't go without a watermaker, don't forget a genset, must have a dingy that can plane with 2 people, drogues, sea anchors, radar, 3 sets of ground tackle, storm tri sail, etc. etc.) the total bill actually exceeds $50k and I would actually load the boat beyond a safe level.   So I won't be taking everything.   

But I don't like your minimalist approach either.  I took a 500 mile cruise this summer and lost a day trying to find a fuel lift pump.   In the Sea of Cortez, a simple problem could be a huge pain.   So I would rather make the big list and then decide I don't really want $484 worth of gaskets.  But it's much better to decide not to bring something than to never even consider it.   

   
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Steve Dolling
Former 1988 #804, BlackDragon - Vancouver BC
Now 1999 Manta 40 cat

Stu Jackson

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2008, 10:29:15 AM »

The humorous among us may suggest that a fuel lift pump is unnecessary if the fuel tank is fuller than half. :D  Easier to find fuel than a pump???
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

waterdog

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2008, 11:49:22 AM »

The humorous among us may suggest that a fuel lift pump is unnecessary if the fuel tank is fuller than half. :D  Easier to find fuel than a pump???

I don't want to talk about the fuel pump.  I don't want to mention that the friendly cruiser next to us offered up some ancient looking spare that I bench tested and it made all the right noise and then I installed it and died 3 seconds later.   I don't want to admit that I ripped that pump out and borrowed a car and drove halfway down the sunshine coast to talk to a kid at the Canadian tire store who said sure he could sell me a fuel pump, what make and model was my car after I explained that it was for my boat.   I'm not willing to admit that I gave up an hour of my life having a ridiculous conversation at the parts counter giving him phantom make model and year data trying to keep a straight face as he would ask me if my 1982 Toyota was a two door or a four door.   I don't want to admit that I maintained some small amount of hope that there might be some way to get a fuel pump out of the parts room in spite of a system that doesn't sell fuel pumps it sells parts for cars of particular make model and year.   And I don't want to admit that I returned to the boat in defeat driving past the closed NAPA store.  And I'm damned if I'll confess that I spent hours chasing down an intermittent electrical problem and redid every connector on my engine panel because damned if the dead ancient borrowed fuel pump didn't pass its bench test on a second try.   And I'll never admit that actually if I had only bothered to crack the bleed screw on the first go I would have discovered that there was no problem with the fuel pump in the first place it just only works when it needs to.

Because if the truth were known, my family would think I was an idiot who wasted a day of our vacation because I didn't know anything about fuel pumps.   Instead, they think I'm a genius who can make anything work by the sheer force of my will and cunning electro-mechanical skills even if I can't get exact replacement parts.   I am a near god who saved them from 3 more days in Pender Harbour waiting for parts from Vancouver.   

Now you're suggesting that I could have dumped the jerry can sitting in my lazerette into the tank and my engine would have started without even getting my hands dirty?   

If I had done this would I be a better person today?   Would the marina owner have that good feeling (and a bottle of wine and a full tank of gas) that comes from helping someone in need?   Would Ted the cruiser have had the opportunity to help a fellow cruiser?   Would he have had a chance to enjoy Tracey's fresh baked brownies?   Would anyone else have given him a bottle of wine that day? 

I think not.   Some things are meant to be.   

I'll shed my ignorance a little bit at a time and enjoy the places it takes me...

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Steve Dolling
Former 1988 #804, BlackDragon - Vancouver BC
Now 1999 Manta 40 cat

Stu Jackson

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2008, 12:08:57 PM »

Geez, Steve, you never mentioned the brownies.... :angel
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Craig Illman

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2008, 12:25:57 PM »

Steve - Pender Harbor isn't the worst place to be stuck. I'd rather be there now on my boat, instead of in my chair in the office wishing that in the 21st century someone could get the HVAC working properly.

Craig
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waterdog

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2008, 01:00:33 PM »

Steve - Pender Harbor isn't the worst place to be stuck. I'd rather be there now on my boat, instead of in my chair in the office wishing that in the 21st century someone could get the HVAC working properly.

Craig
  I know.  That's why we hung out in Pender Harbour the day before installing the inverter and the new battery monitor, wiring in a new switch and starting an electrical fire...
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Steve Dolling
Former 1988 #804, BlackDragon - Vancouver BC
Now 1999 Manta 40 cat

Michael Shaner

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2008, 03:06:07 PM »

You guys are KILLING me...just spit coffee all over the keyboard! :rolling

However, the topic remains extremely educational for the newbie...
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waterdog

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2008, 04:38:58 PM »

...and starting an electrical fire...

But I don't want to talk about the electrical fire, Stu.
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Steve Dolling
Former 1988 #804, BlackDragon - Vancouver BC
Now 1999 Manta 40 cat

waterdog

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2008, 10:48:06 AM »

All right, Stu.  I will bow to your relentless pressure and explain the electrical fire. 

When I bought the boat, the AB refridgeration was wired directly to the battery, protected by a circuit breaker of course.   

I wasn't necessarily fond of this approach but in theory there is nothing wrong with it.  Minimize the voltage drop from the source to the load.  I have other loads, my windlass and my inverter, which also don't go through the panel.  In fact, both have switches on the side of the seat forward of the sink. 

What I didn't like was having a breaker as the switch buried under the outboard cushion and having to lift the cushion and the lid while reaching over the table just to turn off the fridge.  That, and I had no visual indication of whether the fridge was on or off.

So I decided I wanted to have a lighted switch right next to my windlass breaker and my inverter disconnect.   

Now I know what you are thinking Stu.   The humorous among us are thinking at this point, why go to all the trouble of installing a switch and starting an electrical fire when you have the control knob right there with handy access inside the icebox?

The short answer is, a long answer.   But mostly I just wanted a glowing warning light that I can see as I'm shutting up the boat on a Sunday night and dropping in the hatch boards so I don't drain the batteries.   That and I don't like the idea of the fridge being turned on at a different setting every time and having the milk freeze or the ice cubes liquidy.  It's a delicate thing.  A man ought to wire his fridge according to his personal preferences.

So I got the perfect little switch.   A surface mount affair with a round barrel because cutting a perfect rectangle through the two layers of fiberglass in this area is tricky business.   The terminals I would have to connect blind because I can't my head in there. 

Now the markings on the terminals were highly suspect.  No instruction sheet.  All rather vague.   So I trusted nothing and whipped out my hand multimeter and started testing continuity in the both the switch positions so I would be absolutely sure to wire it correctly.   

In fact, so confident was I working on this circuit with a breaker in line, that I really gave it no thought as I jumped a little negative lead over from the battery to the switch.  I didn't even really consider that I had two circuits in play, the fridge circuit and the switch light circuit.  Only one of these was actually protected. 

So I tightened everything up, admired my handiwork, and flipped the switch to turn the fridge on...

If you have never wired in a dead short across a battery before, I would highly recommend it.   It really helps you dispell the notion that working with 12V is not dangerous.   Sure your not likely to get a big shock, but if you screw up, you can really run some impressive current and make short work of insulation and indeed even #10 wire.   It's an impressive sustained flash and the smoke draws crowds from all down the dock.   

I would not want to wire in a dead short with 4/0 wire.   That might get nasty.

Anyway, I got a new switch.  And an inline fuse.   And some fresh wire.  All is well.   
   
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Steve Dolling
Former 1988 #804, BlackDragon - Vancouver BC
Now 1999 Manta 40 cat

Stu Jackson

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2008, 11:45:30 AM »

Glad to hear you still have some hair left! :D

We have the OEM 1986 electrical main panel with a refrigerator switch on it, so  I'm surprised that isn't present on your panel, or perhaps I'm making an assumption - maybe, as you said, it just wasn't wired to the panel which may have a labeled switch.

Dead shorts make for other kinda events in skipper's shorts!  Ain't fuses at the banks helpful?

Re: fridge operation, we have an in-line ammeter on our nav station (not from the factory - this boat was one of the first outta the box without any meters in the panel, and the ammeter, as well as a voltmeter, was added by the PO or the original dealer).  I posted a Blue Seas catalog cut of the 0-25A with internal shunt (and the whole page of the catalog) sometime earlier.  What happens is we KNOW the fridge is on because the ammeter pops up to about 5.  The Link 2000 now says it's "ONLY" 4.9 - we'll take what we can get.  We leave the thermostat on 7 all the time, and just flick the panel switch to off, if need be, like for overnight sometimes, or when we're coming back in, or for defrosting (yeah! I should be able to be on the boat long enough to have to do this more often! :D).
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 11:48:02 AM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Bill Asbury

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Re: Engine Spares for a Long Cruise
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2008, 11:49:33 AM »

Well done, Steve.  Have you considered writing sea stories for publication?  You might be able to make enough money to buy all the suggested spares, and a new much larger boat on which to stow them!
Best wishes.
Bill
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Bill & Penne
Sanderling 2005 C34MKII 1686
Chesapeake Bay
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