2 hours underway and the engine dies.

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sailingdolphin

I have a m25 I have a valve and a fuel filter and each side so if one gets clogged all I have to do is switch the valve and we keep going.  I had to use it for the first time in July after maybe 80 hours with the new system. So my engine was loosing rpms and I turned the valve to the new fuel filter that had 0 hours and we kept going.  I then replaced the 80 hour one when we got back to the dock.  So now I am starting fresh with 2 new ones.

I put about 20 hours on the new one since july.  I filled up my tank yesterday with 6 gallons and headed out to sea leaving for the weekend.  About two hours underway the engine starts loosing RPM's so I switch over to the new fuel filter.  I start the engine, it starts then  if I give it throtte it dies.  I start it again If I don't give it throttle it looses RPM's and dies after 5 seconds.  The weekend is shot.  I sail home.  At the dock I continue to start it just dies.

This is a 1986 I don't know if the tank has ever been cleaned.  I have owned her since 06/2003 and I have never cleaned her.  I have added biocide from time to time.  I think only once this year.  We are in southern CA.

I have a friend who had his tank cleaned and the fuel polished they got a bunch of junk out and put it in a clear little bottle to show him.  He was having problems with his new engine dieing. This was a new engine on a 1985 Catalina 36. After he had the service no problems since.

I also wondered if it could be dirty injectors.

I am not using a fuel pump right now.  I haven't for about a 18 months and I have never had a problem.

I also have never replaced the fuel filter on the engine. The fuel filters before the engine are 2 microns.

Looking for ideas
Doug and Donna #171

Mike and Joanne Stimmler

Have you bled the system through both filters one at a time?

Mike
Mike and Joanne Stimmler
Former owner of Calerpitter
'89 Tall Rig Fin keel #940
San Diego/Mission Bay
mjstimmler@cox.net

David Sanner


I would try replacing the filter on the engine even though
it is supposedly a larger filter than the 2 micron primary.

Sounds like it also may be time for you to get your
tank cleaned, it might save you money on filters
in the long run.

It's my understanding that you need the fuel pump
when the tank is somewhere below half full.

Finally there may be other sources of blockage on your model.
A common one is the screen on the bottom of the pickup
tube inside the tank and another potential would be if you
have a screen on your fuel pump inlet.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=330.0

David Sanner, #611 1988, "Queimada" San Francisco Bay

Ron Hill

#3
Doug : You've been reading this message board for a number of years.  We have talked numerous times (on the MB) about cleaning the fuel tank and getting out the years of crud build up. 
I believe that you are now at that point that if you don't clean your tank you will always have problems!!
Ron, Apache #788

sailingdolphin

I have an appointment Wednesday to have the tank cleaned.  The Fuel filter on the engine, do I push it away from me or pull it towards me if I am standing at the stairs facing aft. Unfortunately I don't have an access door.
Doug and Donna #171

David Sanner


If the filter handle is pointing to the starboard side
of the boat (away from the engine) then push it
away from you, aft...  which would be counter clockwise
if you were lying under the engine... lefty-loosy.

David Sanner, #611 1988, "Queimada" San Francisco Bay

sailingdolphin

Ron, I have never discussed this topic before. :shock:
Doug and Donna #171

Stu Jackson

#7
Doug,

Projects has a good "fuel tank cleaning" article, here: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-fuel-tank-cleaning-sender-replacement.html

The story on the fuel pumps is here from a search on "Napa":  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2515.0

A search on "fuel tank cleaning, with the "s will find about six Message Board hits.

What condition were your filters in when you replaced them?

The secondary engine mounted fuel filter screws on and off just like any normally threaded filter or screw and nut.  Like Dave says, either pretend you're underneath lookin' UP  :lol:, or just look down and figure it from there.  Counterclockwise unthreads it.  We got a very short handled small filter wrench from Napa Auto that works on that (small diameter for the thinner filter).  We do have a door and it's a bear to get through that way, too.  Either way, it's tight, but doable.
Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."

Ron Hill

Doug : What I was referring to - was that there have been numerious posts on this message board about cleaning your fuel tank.  I also wrote a tech note Mainsheet article on that very topic. 
Ron, Apache #788

Roland Gendreau

There is a very good article in Profession Boat Builder on diesel fuel properties as well as the effects of fuel contamination on both the running of the engine and corrosion of the tank .

http://www.proboat-digital.com/proboat/20081011/

A main point is that an accumulation of dead biomass on the floor of the tank not only puts the boat at risk for filter plugging problems when the soup is agitated but also accelerates corrosion of the tank.

When I purchased Gratitude, I took the time to syphon all of the fuel out of the tank, remove the tank from the boat, and clean it completely.  The boat came to me from a much warmer environment than New England I had no idea what  maintenance had been done to the fuel system and  tank. After the fuel tank cleanout, I knew I had a good baseline fuel tank condition to begin with.  It wasn't very difficult to do.

Roland Gendreau
Gratitude #1183





Roland Gendreau
1992 MK 1.5
Gratitude #1183
Bristol, RI

sailingdolphin

Thanks for everyone's help. I checked to make sure there was no screen in the fuel tank and all the fuel lines were clear.  I also replaced the fuel filter on the engine.  Still wouldn't start.  I then replaced the fuel pump since the last one wasn't working.  I just hot wired it to my solenoid I added from the project page a while back. That did it she started right up. 

My ? is where can I connect the wire for the fuel pump?  Is there a place on the engine so I don't have to run a wire all the way to my instrument panel. I don't want to have to take all the silicon off and replace it.

I do have an oil pressure sender.

Doug and Donna #171

Mike Vaccaro

Roland's point is well taken--we suffered corrosion as a result of accumulated water/biomass in our aluminum tank and had to replace it as a result.  This type of corrosion will manifest itself as a slow, weeping leak under the tank.  Since this corrosion occurs from the inside out, no amount of alodine, paint, etc. on the outside of the tank will prevent it.  The best way to ensure it doesn't occur is to regularly remove the water and accumulated sediment as well as the occasional (every five years) cleaning of tank.  Numerous threads and Mainsheet articles have addressed this over the years. 

Not all C34's are equipped with aluminum tanks--some were built with plastic tanks.  No corrosion, but not immune to fuel contamination; so the system requires the same maintenance. 

Since our tanks don't have sumps or sump drains, it's necessary to use the standard pickup flop tube to evacuate any contamination.  We have replaced our standard filter with a larger Racor "turbine" unit that is easier to bleed and change (detailed on the projects page under "Primary Fuel Filter Replacement").   

I tell my powerboat buddies that I spend more time, money and energy keeping my small supply of diesel clean than I do buying fuel!

Cheers,

Mike
1988 C34 Hull #563
Std Rig / Wing Keel

sailingdolphin

By the way...I put in the Facet posi flo fuel filter and it lasted only a year.  This time I got the more expensive one with the screen even though my pump is below the fuel filter it looks like it is a little more powerful and sturdy.



Doug and Donna #171

sailingdolphin

I just priced a new fuel tank and it is $609.00  twice as much as what was reported less than 3 years ago.  To have the tank and fuel cleaned is $255.00.  Guess which one I am going to do.

You are going to notice alot of higher prices since the 34 is moving over to Florida.  I guess they never updated the prices is CA.  Thats what the parts department said.

Doug and Donna #171

Ron Hill

Doug : To answer your question :  The positive wire to the lift pump should go to the middle pole on your key switch of the engine instrument panel.  The negative wire can go to any ground connection.   
Ron, Apache #788