Battery ratings MCA

[Bill Asbury]

Thanks, Jon.  Appreciate your and Ron's guidance on the electrical system issues and will be guided accordingly so as to hopefully maintain my charger, batteries and fridge in optimal operating condition.
Will reread John Nixon's treatise on such matters as well.
Bill

[Stu Jackson]

John Nixon also sent me this paragraph while he and I were discussing what i term my "Fridge Follies" ---

Leaving lead acid batteries on float charge 24/7 will reduce the useful life of the batteries by as much as 35 to 40% compared to cycle charging, which by definition is to charge them only when the need recharging, then leave them alone. The continuous float charge results in accelerated positive grid corrosion, which has the effect of turning the positive plates in the battery into mush: a soft, expanded material that produces increased internal resistance and decreased deep cycle capacity. I only use cycle charging on my boats now, but I will leave them overnight or maybe for a day or 2 with the charger on just to make sure that they get fully recharged.

What the issue IS appears to be BOTH the cycling of the fridge AND the use of the batteries.  Jon and Ron are BOTH right.

Many have employed what Jon has done with John's suggested fridge relay and Ray Irvine set up a relay in his 1-2-B switch with a separate small battery and battery charger to run just the fridge without going through his house bank.

The point being made by Jon is that the new chargers not only have 3 stages (plus equalization) they have 4 stages, the NEW one being OFF.  So, rather than leaving your boat plugged in all the time on FLOAT, the charger will actually turn itself OFF completely, which is MUCH better for the batteries.

With a good "old" 3 stage charger, do what John suggests:  get the batteries FULLY recharged by 24 or 48 hour plug-in, then disconnect, or install a timer to shut it off if you can't get to your boat during the week.  OR, (when and if you need to) buy a new charger with the "off" feature built in.  See John Nixon's Charger Evaluation at:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4352.0.html

And just for grins & giggles and for those of you who may not think spelling is important anymore, it's XANTREX, and NOT Zantrex - puleeze, it makes it so much harder to do a search if the spelling is wrong.  Thanks, rant over.   

[Ron Hill]

Guys : If you have ever seen the boats in a marina that have had a lightening strike on a power line near by (hi surge ie 300,000V) - I'll guarantee you that you'll never let your unattended boat stay plugged in again!!!!!!!  It doesn't take a direct strike to melt everything starting with the boats shore power AC adapter if you are plugged IN. 
Enough on this stupid topic.  Stay plugged in and you may have a "warm" $10,000+ drink - some day.  Your boat, your choice.   OUT 

[Stu Jackson]

ABSOLUTE!!!

OK, OK, if you have lightning, then go for it,  Some, very few, of us do NOT have it.

It's just another good reason to NOT stay plugged in.

Jon S will have a much better reason to do so...have at it!

OH, did I forget: 

Your boat, your choice...

[Jon Schneider]

I'm going to continue to live life dangerously and keep my Absolute chilled.  I've sailed the Long Island Sound for 40 years and have never seen nor heard of a boat in a marina being hit by lightning, though I've probably just jinxed my chances.  I suspect if lightning strikes my boat, plugged or unplugged, a lot of it will be toast.  In the meantime, I shall enjoy chilled olives.  All are welcome ;)

[KenAyer]

Thank you all for your advice.  I found a great article at http://jeanneau.tripod.com/id295.htm that shed more light on the subject, indicating especially what various systems might draw in amps.  I can recommend it highly.  Amongst other things, it points out the the fridge is the main draw.   For day sailing or port to port, this is easy - charge up on shore power, prechill stuff, and worry not.  The occasional couple of days on the hook that we seldom do isn't a problem generally in the S.F. Bay Area where temps are more likely to be in the 70s summer and lower in the "winter".  (We don't have one of those by Midwest or Northeast Coast standards.)  Our air conditioning is AKA the Pacific Ocean, not the Carribean/Gulf Stream.    

I also decided that the "best" thing was to replace the 2 4D batteries that came with the boat (a 2002 C34 MKII) originally.  This meant no rewiring or other switching was necessary.  I also learned that I was measuring the battery's physical size in the wrong way - I was taking the measurements of the footprint and the advertised dimensions were max external measurements, which makes a big difference in terms of the height (box vs terminals) especially.  

I wound up buying them at American Battery in Hayward, CA, as recommended, and was astounded by the price difference - $142 each vs West Marine's $275.

As to the other issue raised on this thread, red wine should generally be served at about 60 - 65 degrees, which can be achieved quickly here in a bucket of water drawn over the side if the air temp is too high - like 70 - 75.  Beer should be prechilled, unless it's good British beer, which should be served about the same temp as the wine.  After sailing, on the hook, decent scotch doesn't need ice or chilled water.  Rum should be served British style with a bit of lime, sugar and water, the original cocktail.  Stuff like white wine, vodka, gin and such should be prechilled or left to the ingenuity of those who drink such stuff.  Water, actually, is best around 65, too.    

Thanks again

 

[Jon Schneider]

Ken, you are clearly a libation connoisseur.  Congrats on finding the right replacements for your batts.

[Bill Asbury]

Thanks, Stu, Ron & Jon.  Don't want Ron mad at me, especially since we both are members of Fleet 12, so I'm going to stay unplugged most of the time.  The Admiral and I only go for occasional overnights anyways due to her busy schedule and I've got a four Trojan house bank with enough juice to light NYC so why worry?  Re electrical storms, we have them often in MD so it's better to be safe than sorry.

Appreciate your correction on the Xantrex spelling, Stu, as I was not paying attention even tho I wonspelling bees in grade school and was spelling it phonetically. Re John Nixon's info, I read thru that again but it's beyond my understanding re running the fridge compressor separately from charging the batteries,tho your mention of a four stage charger with 'off' position sounds like an answer to avoid overcharging when plugged in to shore power.

Don't know why I'm so dense re electricity and boat electrical systems.  Could be because I'm from KY, or perhaps just plain stupid.  :-)

Bill

[Stu Jackson]

Bill, not an issue, boat electrical is something I have been studying for the past ten years.  When we first got our boat, I was completely stumped, so i started reading, listening and hanging out here!     What I've learned is that, other than getting your alternator output directly to the house bank, there is no one right way to do it - your boat, your choice, just here, with others to provide the options (and the subsequent entertainment, however infrequent that may be... ).

For Ken, you may be interested in our earlier post: "Energy Budget" -- See: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3976.0.html  I can email the spreadsheet to you if you'd like, just let me know.

My understanding is that there is a requirement for BOTH red and white wine on board at all times.  The white wine is used to clean up the obvious spills of the red wine.

[Bill Asbury]

Thanks, Stu.  Have had my C34 three years now but was too busy working and traveling on biz to learn much about the boat's systems until retiring recently, since when I've been doing more of the maintenance and repair myself, with much of the insight into how the systems work and how to diagnose problems coming from reading the messages on this board, so I'm thankful for having access to such an interesting and valuable resource, and am constantly amazed at the time you and many others devote to providing your knowledge and directions to the appropriate archives to help us all when we are in a bind. 

For some reason I've never been interested in learning how to cook or understand electrical systems, altho there was a time when I was keenly interested in learning how to get the object of my affection cooking and what it took to get her electrical system stimulated, which even at 75 continues to intrigue me---just the way I'm wired up, I guess---and since sailboats are referred to in the feminine gender I can focus in retirement on the mysteries of 'the other woman's' systems and how to optimize her/their performance. 

As regards wine, the Admiral prefers Chard most of the time but occasionally and spontaneously likes to join me in a nice glass of cabernet sauvignon, so I make sure we have both on the boat.  We just spent a lovely weekend on the Chesapeake and the boat and the Admiral performed flawlessly, so I must be doing something right and life is good.

Thanks again, Stu, Ron, Jon, et al for making C34IA the vital and unique resource that it is!!! 

[Chris Martinson]

A little off the subject but I change out my "standard" battery switch and got rid of the isolators the PO put into the system and installed the new Blue Sea battery switch with combiner. when I replaced by House bank..the switch has only 2 "on" postions....on and combined (starting and house)   It isolates the starting battery from the house bank and and charges one bank first and the the second - without changing the switch ever - just leave it in the on position.  This eliminates the alternating banks and switching off when you turn off the engine which was a real hassle. 

Blue Sea has great support...my separate starting battery was placed by the PO who must have had stock in copper..under the bow seat of the settee....far away from the engine.....long story short....I had to wire it to charge my house bank first then staring battery.  Apparently this is recommended by an authority but I can't remember which one...us sailors don't really drain the starting battery like power boats and I've never had a problem in 3 years...i have tested it and it goes from one bank to the other.

I can dig out  my paperwork on the switch if there is interest but while changing out your batteries...I highly recommend this upgrade.

Chris

[Stu Jackson]

Chris, good job on your battery upgrade.  Anyone who still has isolators on their boats these days would be well advised to remove them and start actually charging their batteries for a change.   

I believe the switch you are referring to is this one, which, as you note, requires a combiner -- unless you leave the switch on the combine.  Which, BTW, is almost exactly what one does with a standard 1-2-B switch anyway.  The switch as shown is essentially wired just the way a 1-2-B switch is wired (w/alternator output NOT through the switch but to the house bank).  This new gizmo is just another way to do the switching.  We chose to leave the 1-2-B switch and wire the alternator output to the house bank and use a combiner (with it's own on-off switch in the ground wire).  In both cases the switch can be used to combine the batteries without a combiner for charging if you think about it and how it's wired (assumes 20A charger - less than 30 Amps because of the existing wiring size between the banks and the switch (#4 reds)).

Please note that the missing link on this photograph is the alternator output.  This switch is another way to do the wiring.  I think you've found a good application for it.  On our boat, we just leave the switch on the house bank, since we only use the "start" (which I think should be called "emergency" or "reserve") bank for occasional starting and testing to assure it's still in good shape.