Proper support during winter storage.

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

prh77

The yard stored Trinity on a rather tired looking cradle. During the winter, the whole thing settled and the two aft supports ended up supporting much of the weight , rather than the keel. Now the hull is deformed approx 1/4 inch around the L/H aft support. Yard says hulls are elastic and no problem. I am irate. How much damage was done? How should I proceed with repairs or whatever. L/H aft support is approx 12" by 12" and is located 12" fwd of through hulls for engine intake,toilet, etc. Thanks.
Peyton Harrison Hull # 597 1988 "Trinity"

Jon Schneider

Wow, I'm not sure I could notice a 1/4" indent.  What's the "L/H aft support"?  Whatever it is, I would just look at the gelcoat in the area of the indents and see if there is any crazing.  If there is, that's what I'd get the yard to repair, because that won't "bounce back."
Jon Schneider
s/v Atlantic Rose #1058 (1990)
Greenport, NY USA

Ron Hill

prh : I'd recommend that you ask the Catalina factory your question. 
Their answer will mean much more than the speculation from a bunch of C34 owners.  A thought. 
Ron, Apache #788

Jon Schneider

Ron, do you realize that you're basically putting this forum out of business  :think

Actually, since CY is in the business of making new boats, I'm not so sure that they're even as good as we are in maintaining a good old boat.  PRH, if you're really concerned about potential internal damage (versus the cosmetic crazing I mentioned), you could have a surveyor sound the hull in the afflicted spots.  But if I were you, I wouldn't listen to me.   :rolling
Jon Schneider
s/v Atlantic Rose #1058 (1990)
Greenport, NY USA

tonywright

#4
If it were me I would be pretty upset as well. I would suspect that some serious repair work needs to be done. Definitely needs careful inspection by a serious surveyor. Thanks for sharing the story. It is an important lesson for the rest of us to pay careful attention to how our boats are supported during winter storage.

I strongly recommend a good custom cradle designed specifically for the C34, well blocked and leveled, and the boat carefully positioned so that it is well balanced and well supported. I had the crane reposition mine last fall. The initial placement on the cradle was too far aft. We have now painted a stripe on the wing and a matching one on the cradle so it is easier to line up next fall.

Around here most have good experience with cradles from the Marine Cradle Shop in Toronto.   I have seen some pretty tired looking other cradles, or even some just using jack stands on a gravel surface. This seems to be taking unnecessary risks with such a valuable boat...$1500 or so seems a reasonable cost to protect the investment. 

Hope this is sorted out to your satisfaction.

Tony



Tony Wright
#1657 2003 34 MKII  "Vagabond"
Nepean Sailing Club, Ottawa, Canada

sailingdream

Is the $1500 how much Marine Cradle Shop charges for a C34? I will need to have one made this summer.

I'm in the Toronto area.


Jon Schneider

Quote from: tonywright on April 21, 2008, 07:53:35 PM
I strongly recommend a good custom cradle designed specifically for the C34, well blocked and leveled, and the boat carefully positioned so that it is well balance and well supported.... Around here most have good experience with cradles from the Marine Cradle Shop in Toronto.   I have seen some pretty tired looking other cradles, or even some just using jack stands on a gravel surface. This seems to be taking unnecessary risks with such a valuable boat...$1500 or so seems a reasonable cost to protect the investment. 
This is a really interesting discussion, because cradles just aren't used by anyone in southern NY and Long Island.  Must be a regional bias.  There's only one in my marina, and I was sort of impressed by it until I heard PRH's problem.  A cradle doesn't seem to be any more fool-proof than jack stands, but is definitely more of a PITA. 
Jon Schneider
s/v Atlantic Rose #1058 (1990)
Greenport, NY USA

tonywright

Sailing Dream

It may be less than $1500. I think that I paid a little less than that 2 years ago, and my price included delivery to Ottawa.

Jon: virtually no-one here uses jack stands for anything other than temporary support. They are considered to be less stable on an aggregate/gravel surface, and if one boats goes, it will tend to push others over as it falls sideways. We have almost 500 boats tightly packed in the yard (maybe I will post a couple of pics later), and it would not be a pretty picture to see the domino effect (we have seen the pictures of hurricane damage in yards down south).  We can see some slight shifts in ground levels during the freeze/thaw cycle as well. My PO used jack stands , and told me he would regularly visit the boat (in Gloucester, Mass) and crank them up during the winter as the stands gradually sank into the gravel.

For storage, we insist on folding cradles, and use a (Kubota of course) tractor to move them to and from storage racks at one end of the yard.  They are stored on their side, with identifying number, boat name and owner. Probably tidier than trying to store thousands of jack stands (assuming 4-6 per boat).

Tony














Tony Wright
#1657 2003 34 MKII  "Vagabond"
Nepean Sailing Club, Ottawa, Canada

karista

For what its worth, cradles were not allowed in the marinas where I stored the boat in Maryland, they are also not allowed in most Florida Marinas. I never had a cradle, and boat always has been on jackstands, whether in upstate NY and all the way down south. I would never consider paying $15000 for a cradle which will be useless if you decide to sail south and most likely is no better than the stands if properly set with chains.

Bernd
Bernd, 1990- Hull 1012, Gulfport, FL

Steve Sayian

Jack stands will not sink into gravel as long as you use a 6 inch square 3/8 inch thick piece of plywood under each leg.  Jack stands are also tied together athwartships to keep from 'walking' away from the hull.
Have used them for over 30 years on all my boats with the mast up and never had a problem of moving or sinking.

Steve Sayian
"Ocean Rose"
1999 Mk II
Wing, Std Rig, Kiwi Prop
#1448, Hingham, Mass

sailingdream

Ok thanks. Because I didn't have any Cradle this winter, at the marina I was stored at, they used jacks. 4 jacks, with a stand near the prop shaft comes out.


BillG

While we are on the subject, does anyone know what proportion of  weight should actually be on the jack stands versus the keel.
Bill
Rock Hall, MD

Ted Pounds

Basically most of the weight should be on the keel. the jack stands are just to balance the boat.  I believe a cradle should work the same way.  The other nice thing about jack stands is that you can add one then take away one to paint the spots covered by the pads.  By the way my boat was alway stored on 7 stands - 3 on each side and one on the bow.   Had a small tornado come through the marina one spring.  It knocked over the boat next to mine (on a cradle) which ended up leaning on mine and trailer mast-support in between us.  My boat was still standing and the only damage was one section of the furling extrusion.
Ted Pounds
"Molly Rose"
1987 #447

Momentum M

Guys.....depending of where you are and the yard policy...it might be different and if one is confortable with his system I don't see a problem there!!!

My one experience is that a cradle makes my life a lot easier.  First you shouldn't forget that where I store my boat we have frost so a cradle is much easier.  I also paid 1,500$ for it (bought from the dealer at the same time that I bought the boat so if you go direct..might be a little cheaper).

The cradle was delivered directly to the yard 'cause I sailed away with the boat from the dealer.

When time came to haul out...well I wasn't to happy.  The 2 centered and the 2 stern were way to long...and the center one were poking the belly quite bad.
I couldn't lower them any more ...they were down to the nuts. The 2 front one were fully extended to.  I made arrangement with the yard to cut them but to make a very long story short they never did it.

So the boat did lay like that all winter (6 mo).  In the spring, when the boat was removed...the belly was back to it's original shape and nothing as far as damage.

During the course of the summer, I took parts of the cradle back home and I did cut them to my liking.  It was quite a job as you have to cut the bottom ends out 'cause the top do have an insert ( a round piece welded in the square tube) to stabilized the 12" bolt that support the pads.  Also, they have angle pieces (reinforcement of the uprights) so these also have to be cut.  For the front leg I thickened the pads by adding 5 or 6 thickness of 3/4" plywood before covering them with a piece of carpet.  Now the boat lays happily all winter.

For dimensions, if you could see a Cat 34 (at your marina)on a cradle and then measure if you like or modify the dimensions to you liking.  But the measure should be about
40" in front and the others 30".

If I had to order one again, I would order it with a total of 8 legs instead of 6.
I find that the stern is free standing in the air (way to long for my likings)...and I find it quite far from the last post.  A few boaters at our yard do add 2 jacks to support the stern but with the frost playing it's game it means adjusting a few times over the winter.
If I had and 8 foots cradle then the frost could lift it as it desire but the sitting of the boat on the pads wouldn't vary thus the weight on each pad would stay the way it was installed.


Serge & Carole Cardinal
C 34 Mk II 2005 - 1719
Wing Keel
Fresh water, Ontario Lake, Canada/Usa
On Hard from Oct to May

Momentum M

Picture here where you can see that the front post are to small and the others to long
Serge & Carole Cardinal
C 34 Mk II 2005 - 1719
Wing Keel
Fresh water, Ontario Lake, Canada/Usa
On Hard from Oct to May